Indianapolis 500 Rookie Robert Shwartzman steals the show by winning the pole. Also, IndyCar President Doug Boles on a major penalty, front row starters Takuma Sato and Pato O’Ward and much more from the 109th Indianapolis 500

Roger Penske:

This is Roger Penske and you're listening to Pit Pass Indie, sponsored by Penske Truck Rental.

Bruce Martin:

IndyCar fans, it's time to start your engines. Welcome to Pit Pass Indy, a production of Evergreen Podcast. I'm your host, Bruce Martin, a journalist who regularly covers the NTT IndyCar Series. Our goal at Pit Pass Indy is to give racing fans an insider's view of the exciting world of the NTT IndyCar Series in a fast-paced podcast featuring interviews with the biggest names in the sport. I bring nearly 40 years of experience covering IndyCar and NASCAR, working for such media brands as NBCSports.com, SI.com, ESPN SportsTicker, Sports Illustrated, AutoWeek and SpeedSport. So let's drop the green flag on this episode of Pit Pass Indy. Welcome to this special Indianapolis 500 edition of Pit Pass Indy presented by Penske Truck Rental as we continue our fifth season of giving IndyCar fans an inside look at the most exciting form of racing on the planet, the NTT IndyCar Series. And a big thanks to Penske Truck Rental for helping bring you the inside stories of IndyCar from the paddock, to the racetrack, to the highways and streets of America. Pit Pass Indy is at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway for the biggest month of the racing year, the month of May, culminating with the 109th Indianapolis 500 on May 25th. The Indy 500 is more than a race. It's a cultural phenomenon that draws nearly 350,000 fans to the famed Cathedral of Speed, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Today, we are coming to you from the Sid Collins booth at the home of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Radio Network, which will call all the action of Sunday's big 109th Indianapolis 500. Fox Sports will also be televising the Indianapolis 500 for the first time on that network, so be sure to tune in and catch all the action, unless of course, you're here at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Qualifications for the Indy 500 are complete, and the field of 33 is set for Sunday's big race at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. The interest level in the Indy 500 is so high, all grandstand seats for the Memorial Day weekend speed classic have been sold, making this year's Indianapolis 500 the first sellout since the 100th running in 2016. Congratulations to IndyCar, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and owner Roger Penske for returning the Indianapolis 500 to the world's biggest can't-miss sporting event. There have already been two major stories that have come out of Indy 500 qualifications. The first is rookie Robert Schwartzman of Tel Aviv, Israel, who stunned the Speedway by winning the pole with a four lap average of 232.790 miles per hour during the Fast Six qualification run for the pole on Sunday, May 18th. Schwartzman entered the weekend as an unheralded rookie for Prema Racing and leaves as the first rookie driver to win the Indy 500 pole since Italy's Teo Fabi in 1983. But there was also a major controversy involving Team Penske and two of its star drivers teams including two-time and back-to-back Indy 500 winner Josef Newgarden and 2018 Indianapolis 500 winner Will Power. Both drivers were pulled out of the qualification line when IndyCar technical director Kevin Rocket Blanche ruled that modifications had been made to the rear attenuator on each driver's Chevrolet IndyCars. That is not allowed by IndyCar Series rules. The two cars were about to participate in the Fast 12 session on Sunday and had the option of making an attempt but failing technical inspection afterwards, or they could pull out of line and at that time start 11th and 12th in Sunday's race. That changed overnight, however, when IndyCar president Doug Bowles and Penske Entertainment CEO Mark Miles determined for the integrity of the world's biggest race, the penalties needed to be more severe. On Monday, May 19th, IndyCar announced New Garden and Power would be moved from Row 4 to Row 11 with the two last starting positions in the race. New Garden will start 32nd and Power 33rd. That also moved every driver, originally 13th and back, up two positions on the grid. Scott McLaughlin's car number three did not attempt to qualify Sunday in the top 12 because of a crash in the earlier afternoon's practice. Upon review of the car and IndyCar impounding the number three attenuator, IndyCar found that the car was in fact using a legal and unmodified attenuator. Therefore, McLaughlin's car will start in the 10th spot, the final spot of those who had qualified to participate in the top 12. Additionally, IndyCar is suspending the team strategists for the numbers 2 and 12 for the remainder of the Indianapolis 500 presented by Gainbridge. Both cars will forfeit Indianapolis 500 qualification points, and each entry has been fined $100,000. The race strategist for Josef Newgarden on the number two is Team Penske IndyCar president Tim Sendrick. The race strategist for Will Power on the number 12 is Ron Rzewski. Both were also suspended from the Indianapolis 500 in 2024 because of the push to pass scandal. Car numbers two and 12 also forfeited their pit positions and will select their pit boxes after the remainder of the field has an opportunity to adjust accordingly. We will hear from IndyCar and Indianapolis Motor Speedway President Doug Bowles later in the show. But we start on the poll with the first rookie poll winner at the Indianapolis 500 since 1983, who happens to drive car number 83, Robert Schwarzman of Prima. Schwarzman joined me for this exclusive pit pass Indy interview after winning the poll position for the 109th Indianapolis 500. Joining us now on Pit Pass Indy, it's an honor to present, called Robert Schwartzman, an Indianapolis 500 pole winner. He's never driven an oval race before, and you win the pole for the biggest race on earth. How does all this happen?

Robert Shwartzman:

Well, yeah, it's definitely an unbelievable moment for me. I still can't really fully believe that we've managed to do that. I think, yeah, you know, coming here, my approach and target of coming and starting the free practice, it was just, you know, guys, let's keep it easy. Let's take it step by step. I knew from experience of other guys that this track is unforgiving. And, you know, my target was just, you know, don't do any mistakes, just keep it on track. And, you know, step by step, with obviously an experience of Eric, he's the engineer in the past for Penske. He was working with Joseph and now he's actually working in SpaceX. You know, he came up to help us for this race, especially with my car. And big thanks to Chevy for doing that. So it's been definitely a big help. You know, he had some experience and he came with the same mentality, like, you know, guys here, we just need to be calm and steady and, you know, just going slowly, step by step, going forward. And that's what we did from free practices. And, you know, we step by step improved a bit the car. And then we came to the Fast Friday. I was like, the car is feeling really good. The car is handling this power well. And we were like, OK. Then obviously there was a bit different conditions. We tweaked a bit the car. And yeah, coming here on today's today qualy, the target was just, you know, just do the four laps consistent and we'll see where we're going to be. And, you know, at some point we, like the engineers had an idea to try a new thing. And I was like, initially I was like supportive. I was like, yeah, well, we're already in top 12, we can try. And then later on, I just had a feeling. I was like, you know, let's just keep things simple. And I think that's where it's very important to know when you have a really good car and you just need to keep it. Keep it and, you know, make things simple. And all the rest is just for me, was just to get more confidence and just deliver the proper, let's say, run in qualifying. And that's what we managed to do.

Bruce Martin:

you weren't even on anybody's radar screen until Friday. So to be able to make that dramatic improvement, I believe on Tuesday, you were like 33rd fastest out of 34, but the team took the approach, take it easy, take it slowly, take it simple, learn as you go. And how did you learn so fast?

Robert Shwartzman:

I mean, as I said, from my side, I'm a very quick learner and I'm happy about it myself. I think if there is any, let's say, things that I'm pretty good at is to learn quick and obviously to be smart about things, you know, keep things under control. Yes, we started off quite far, but with this progression, keeping things simple and steady without taking much risk, that's where the progression came. From my side, I was just learning really quickly how the car was feeling, reporting it to the team. just knew what to do. They just knew how to change it and improve it. And, you know, it was just like back and forward. I would just say, this is how I feel, this is my limiting factor. And the engineer would know exactly what to do to improve that. And that's how we would go back and forward. And we would arrive with a car that was really, really strong in Fast Friday.

Bruce Martin:

I asked you on Saturday if you benefited from the fact that the practice sessions at the Indianapolis 500 are very long, they're six hours long, and that's just what a rookie needs is track time. So how much did you see yourself progressing day by day by having all of that practice time?

Robert Shwartzman:

As I said yesterday to you, it definitely was a big help for me and for our team to have this a lot of track time that we got. Because it helped us to improve the car and for me to get some confidence, to get also some knowledge of how it has to be feeling. And yeah, I mean, I wish in the other races we also had a bit more practices, a bit more running time because for me as a rookie and for the team, it would be very useful to, you know, catch up fast to the guys with big experience. And yeah, like I said to you, I think the big key factor here was actually that there was this practices, this six hours time where we could just practice, practice and get our car. Because without those practices, for sure, we wouldn't be able to be at this spot, or at least with the same amount of confidence.

Bruce Martin:

A rookie starting on the pole for the Indianapolis 500 hasn't happened since Teofabi of Italy in 1983. And when you think of something that hasn't happened in that long and now you're the next, how cool is that for you?

Robert Shwartzman:

Well, it's definitely amazing. You know, like people said, it's quite a cool coincidence that my car number is 83, and the last guy who did it was in 1983. So it's a real cool coincidence. It's been how many, 42 years that it hasn't happened? And I mean, I just want to believe that I'm going to be remembered for it. For sure, in my memory, this moment is going to be stuck for all of my life. It's amazing. It's the hottest qualifying of my life, of my career. And, you know, getting the pole position in such an iconic place, it's just a dream. And, yeah, it's just a dream come true. So I guess you could say it was all in the numbers, 83 and 83.

Bruce Martin:

Yeah, maybe. People who believe in numbers, I think it's just a right coincidence. But when you look at the drivers that you beat out for the pole, we're talking about legends like Scott Dixon and Alex Pelos, the hottest driver in IndyCar right now, and... Paddle Ward, very popular, very fast driver. You beat them all.

Robert Shwartzman:

Yeah, I'm in. Honestly, at that stage, I didn't even look much at them. I knew that they're super fast and super experienced, strong guys. And I was like, well, I'm just going to focus on what I'm doing. And then when I was looking at the standings, it was like, oh, I'm there with them. It's super cool. I was super happy. Obviously, I have to say, I think that I would believe that the guy who would be very challenging for me to beat as well is Scott, Scotty. He was all week, let's say long, he was one of the fastest. I think overall, all the guys you mentioned, they're super strong and you know, I gave them credit. There is also Will Power that was there, Josef Newgarden, like, don't forget the Banskys. Obviously, they didn't have a strong day, but I believe that if they were there, for sure, they would have made my life harder. But yeah, I mean, you know, this is another thing that I was mentioning is why we didn't go on a practice. It was for the reason that, you know, just not taking any risk. We knew that it's not going to be still, it's not going to be the same for qualifying. So let's just keep the car for qualifying. And I think what happened to Scotty, it was just like, you know, I knew that they were practicing and pushing the limits and, you know, that happened that he went over the limit. And unfortunately for him, the qualifying just didn't happen.

Bruce Martin:

Of course, you're talking about Scott McLaughlin, the driver of the number three Pennzoil Chevrolet at Team Penske. Different topic. You're from Tel Aviv, Israel. There's never been a driver from Israel that has won the poll for the Indianapolis 500. You may be the first driver from Israel that's ever raced in the Indianapolis 500. How big an honor is that for you to represent Israel in the biggest motorsports race in the world?

Robert Shwartzman:

For sure it's a massive privilege and massive honor from my side to bring up the Israeli flag here at the top in Indy 500 and I hope and I want to believe that the people in Israel are following me, supporting me and that they're proud and happy of what I have managed to do today and again I just want to repeat myself you know it was basically like a week ago it was just a dream what happened today It was just a dream and I want people to generally believe in dreams and they have to dream and they have to chase their dreams. They have to do, obviously, things for it to happen. It's not going to fall down from the sky. You got to work hard for it. But if you're dreaming and you're focused and you're dedicated to your job, you're going to one day, I'm sure you're going to come to your dream.

Bruce Martin:

How big a boost is this going to be for Promo, especially maybe getting a sponsor to join the team?

Robert Shwartzman:

I want to believe it's going to be, now we're going to be way more under the spotlight and for sponsors and, you know, people who would be interested, that they would be interested to join us. We're welcome to join, you know, accept anybody who is interested.

Bruce Martin:

And finally, Your team advisor and driver coach, Ryan Briscoe, started on the Indianapolis poll here in his career. He was an Indianapolis 500 veteran, and he's been working with you. How valuable was his input and instruction to help you get the Indianapolis 500 poll in 2025?

Robert Shwartzman:

I mean Ryan for sure, I had a really good chat with him on Saturday, yesterday. I was feeling really nervous, it was my first qualifying, I was like, I have no idea what to expect. I knew that we had a decent car, but I was just worried, how can I put all these four laps together and not make a mistake. And I was like, Ryan, were you nervous before qualifying? He was like, hell yeah, that's normal. And then we chatted and he calmed me down. He was like, listen, take it easy. You're a rookie. Whatever happens, happens. Just do your job. And that's what I did. And, you know, he has the experience. He's taken pole position himself, so he knows what is worth and what you need to do to do that. And definitely he was, you know, very supportive of our job. And, you know, he's a big help in the team, honestly, with his experience, with his knowledge and also his passion. Like he definitely loves this sport. And even though now he's not racing anymore, he still is part of a team that is sort of giving the boost for people in the team to keep pushing and keep going forward.

Bruce Martin:

And our final question for Robert Schwartzman of Prima, the poll winner for the 109th Indianapolis 500. There's a very big responsibility leading the field of 33 cars, three abreast start into a 45 degree angle turn one. What are you going to do to prepare for that? Because there's going to be a lot of other cars that are going to come up alongside of you and behind you and you know that you've got to start the race safely.

Robert Shwartzman:

I mean, again, I will have to do a good homework with Ryan because he has raced there, he has the experience so I need some definitely guidelines from his side. I have to watch some videos from the past, how he was looking to learn and to see generally how all the things are working in here because I've never done an oval race in my life so I don't know exactly how you overtake and how you defend and what's the best strategy and how you should approach the race overall because it's, you know, It's 200 laps, it's long. So I know that as a long race, it's important, first of all, to take things easy and calm and don't stress and don't overpush. I've had this experience in the endurance in the past year. I more or less can picture how it should be. But obviously, I just want to get most knowledge I can before jumping in the car. Obviously, it's a big privilege to start first here. I'll have the whole lineup behind me. And yeah, I mean, from my side, it's just to learn, to use the practices that we're going to have, this, you know, four hours in total of time to prepare the best as possible the race car, to get more feeling how it feels like driving in the tow. And yeah, when we're gonna get started, just, you know, to do as smooth as run as possible and whatever happens, happens, you know, it's a race, it's Indy 500, anything can happen. I think from my side, I'm super happy already for today, for me, it already feels like a win, you know, being the fastest guy here in Indy 500. And yeah, I mean, the race is, anything can happen in Indy 500. My job is just to keep it smooth, keep it calm, and hope that at the end of the race, for the last 10-5 laps, we're going to be still at the top and we're going to be battling for the win.

Bruce Martin:

Well, Robert Schwartzman, you're the story of the week at the Indianapolis 500. Maybe if you win the race next week, you will definitely be the story of the year. But good luck in the 109th Indianapolis 500, good luck in the 2025 NTT IndyCar Series season, and thank you for joining us on Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental. Thank you. Ryan Briscoe is the driver coach and key advisor for Prima and started 10 Indy 500s as a driver with a best finish of 2nd in 2007 and 2012. Briscoe also won the pole in 2012. Briscoe coached Swartzman this season and was impressed with the speed and confidence displayed by the driver from Israel. I caught up with Briscoe on pit lane at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway after Schwarzman won the poll for this exclusive Pit Pass Indy interview.

Ryan Briscoe:

I thought it would be a lot easier being out of the car, but it's not. This is crazy. It's ridiculous. Prima team, these guys are just amazing. And I started my career with them like 20 years ago. And they are first class. And you know, it's just great to see them over here doing so well. Well, tomorrow we go to work on racing. So we've got two hours of practice tomorrow with the pack. This was race number one. So we've done that. We've won that. We just got the pole for the Indy 500. But tomorrow we reset, you know. And, you know, we get to work on race trim. Robert's never raced an oval in his life. So, yeah. We're going to go to work. We're going to watch some film. We're going to practice hard. We're going to talk about things. We're going to go over everything. I can help him, what it's like going off the front row. But, yeah, you know. This is race one. Next week's race two. We'll see what happens. So much fun. So much fun. He welcomes it. He takes it on. He's become a great friend. And I'm just having a blast with him. Yeah, just incredible. You know, for me personally, this has been like a full circle journey coming on board as like an advisor and driver coach. But for this team, the hardship they've gone through to start the season, there's no denying next week is going to be a really hard race. But anyone who's been here knows that this event is two races. And this is race number one. And we kicked ass. And no one can ever take that away. This is history being made. We reset, we go next week, and we'll see what we can do in the race. But no one can take away pole position. Do you chalk it up to great coaching?

None:

100%.

Bruce Martin:

And in all the years that you've raced in the Indianapolis 500, you won the poll here. This has to count as the biggest surprise poll winner in decades.

Ryan Briscoe:

I mean, for sure. Like, I don't think anyone saw this coming, but You know, when we rolled this Speedway car off that got finished just this week, we rolled it out. And we were all talking amongst ourselves that, man, this thing looks fast. You know, for the downforce we were running, we were like, we've got some speed in this. So we just kept chipping away. You know, the engineers, everyone working together step by step, being really smart, methodical, keeping the driver's confidence up. everything and You know bit by bit. We started really believing that you know, we're we're like we're actually in this and and we're gonna keep pushing and we're gonna keep trimming and we're gonna see how far we can take this and My god like here we are

Bruce Martin:

Are you going to have a lengthy sit down with him to explain to him just the tremendous responsibility that comes with leading the field of 33 to the green flag to start the race?

Ryan Briscoe:

I mean, I think part of the beauty of being a rookie is he's just gonna go and start the race like he would start any race from pole position and that's what he should do. But he's gonna be pretty busy here, I'm not sure, it's gonna be a while till I see him. But yeah, we'll talk about stuff and we'll watch some video and we'll go through it. But I think what makes him so great is he's just so chill and you know, not overthinking it, you know, and he's just here to go fast. And all week long, you know, when we've been decent, he's just wanted more. He's just wanted more every time.

Bruce Martin:

And Ryan, how do you compare this to your exploits as a driver at the Indianapolis 500? Different, but I'm sure you're thrilled just as much.

Ryan Briscoe:

Yeah, I mean, obviously, mine as my own pole was extremely special. It was, you know, the first one for GM and Chevrolet back in 2012. You know, so I can compare my emotions to his. But I tell you what, I almost feel more emotional now for him getting pole than I did for myself. So I'm just over the moon. Congratulations. Thank you.

Bruce Martin:

We'll be right back to Pit Pass Indy after this short break.

Josef Newgarden:

Hey everyone, this is two-time Indy 500 winner, Josef Newgarden, and you're listening to Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental.

Bruce Martin:

Welcome back to Pit Pass Indy. Two-time Indianapolis 500 winner, Takuma Sato of Tokyo, is back with Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing, attempting to join an elite group of drivers that have won the 500 mile race three times in their career. Sato has a great starting position as his four-lap effort was the second fastest at 232.578 miles per hour in the number 75 Honda. He will be in the middle of row one with poll winner Robert Schwartzman to his left and Pato Awuordo to his right. Here are the quick thoughts of Sato after his qualification run.

Takuma Sato:

Yeah, it was great. It was a perfect run for us and finally we nailed everything perfectly together. Obviously, great. You know, I'm really proud of all the teams and huge congrats to Prem and Sjoerdsson. Wow, what a speed they're clocking. I mean, it's fantastic. So, a complete half-off. But for our sake, I think the boys and engineers are working extremely, extremely well. So, I'm very, very proud of that. It's been a jet coaster, up and down. But I think we should be very, very proud of that. And we're now obviously working really hard to get the race car sorted. So we are still a long way off. But it should be good. You're showing that one time a year, you still got it. Yeah, it's close. But I think I respect all the competitors doing a fantastic speed. So we made everything we had. So we should be very proud of that.

Bruce Martin:

Pato Award of Monterrey, Mexico scored his first-ever front-row start for the Indy 500. He was the third-fastest driver in Sunday's Fast Six qualifications, and join me for this exclusive Pit Pass Indy interview afterwards.

Will Power:

I've never been on the front row for an Indy 500, so this is great. This is literally what I want. I told my family yesterday, actually. I was like, my goal is to be outside of the front row. Obviously, I would have loved pole, but it's just... It's a tall task and it's also, you just never know here. It's always a surprise and I think it's phenomenal what Prema did with Schwarzmann. I think it's an incredible story and for us, we're right there. We're right there. We had a very quick car all month. and we're gonna continue to have it in the race. So now we can work on that and see what we can make happen. It's the best view going into turn one. No one's in front of you. So I'll be right beside Sato and Robert. So it's a pretty... Pretty unique front row, probably the rookiest of rookies on pole. Sato, very experienced Indy 500 winner, and then myself. Man, I have to say, you know, I gotta give it to all my competitors that strap into these cars, especially this year. It's been a very gnarly month in terms of accidents, and you just... We're taking these cars so on the edge. You know, I had mine just right there this last run, getting wiggly into one and it's just, you're playing with fire there, man. I mean, have you seen, like, the saves that you could do maybe last year, a year before? You can't do that anymore, so you're just, you're flirting with... Well, with basically almost going to the hospital, you know, when you're really trying to get that last little bit of speed. So it's a bummer that I feel like we lost some speed there. But that's Indy. But I'm super pumped that we're on the front row.

Bruce Martin:

Scott Dixon of Chip Ganassi Racing was attempting to tie Rick Mears for most poles in Indy 500 history with six. Once again, the 2008 Indy 500 winner was fast, but didn't have the fastest four-lap average on Sunday. Instead, he will start fourth, the inside of row two, after a four-lap average of 232.052 miles per hour. Here is Dixon after his qualification attempt.

Scott Dixon:

Yeah, it's happened a few times, but good for them. A stellar job, obviously. Everybody puts in so much effort, and they were a standout today, so congrats. Yeah, absolutely. I think we're in a really good spot. We've had really good pace in race running. We'll see how that plays out in the race, and hopefully we stay out of trouble. But yeah, I think we've got a good chance. Yeah, it's cool though, like, good on them. You know, rookie team, pretty much, you know, it's like their fifth, sixth race. I don't think he even went flat out there, so that thing is a bloody rocket ship, that's for sure. So, good job to them. We tried our best, we definitely trimmed out pretty aggressively on that last run and just didn't have enough speed. So, congrats to Schwarzman and the 83 team, and it's a pretty cool place to start their first Indianapolis 500. Yeah, you'd like to start further up. You know, our goal was to try and shoot for the pole. We're starting P4. You know, it's great. Kudos to Honda. I think we had four out of the six, you know, in qualifying up there. But yeah, we still, now we kind of turned the page. You know, we really work now on the race setup.

Bruce Martin:

Rick Mayer's record safe for another year. You're eventually probably going to tie it. Going into the Fast Six, did you really feel confident that You were going to end up where Robert Schwartzman is right now.

Scott Dixon:

You never really know. Like, that's the hard part is, you know, I expected the thing to really light up, actually, like it did this morning. You know, we threw out some big speeds this morning, and it was the same configuration. We trimmed out more for this one. But it just never really went. You know, it was the same with the 10 and the same with, you know, the 60. So kind of a little bit not sure what happened there, but we'll figure it out. But, you know, we were close. So starting P4 is OK.

Bruce Martin:

And would it be safe to say what Robert Schwartzman did today, winning the pole, I don't think anybody gave him a chance entering the week, might be one of the biggest upsets in Indy 500 qualifying history?

Scott Dixon:

Kind of. I think when you're in the ins and outs of it, you kind of see it. You know, we knew after his first run, if he could kind of go flat or close to flat, that they were going to be super fast. So, you know, it was definitely pretty wild for them. But so cool, you know, so great to see. So congrats to Schwarzman and obviously the 83 group and everybody at Prima.

Bruce Martin:

And also a lot of big crashes the last two days. What do you see as being the reason for that? Some people want to speculate it might have been the added weight of the hybrid, but it also could be a lot of different factors.

Scott Dixon:

Yeah, conditions have been tough, especially yesterday with the wind. You know, yeah, the hybrid doesn't make it any easier, that's for sure. But it's the same for everybody. And you've got to dial it in to what it is. So, you know, yeah. From a positive standpoint, everybody walked away and everybody's gonna be in the race. Yeah, it's great to see. You know, definitely some big crashes, some bigger crashes than what we've probably seen normally. So, you know, it is nice to see that everybody is safe and sound and able to walk away and get back in the cars.

Bruce Martin:

Well, Scott Dixon, congratulations on your qualifying effort. Good luck in the 109th Indianapolis 500. Thank you for joining us on Pit Pass Indy. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Last Sunday's qualifications determined the starting lineup for the first four rows and also the last chance qualifying for row 11. There were four drivers going for the final three positions in a one-hour shootout. Marco Andretti and Marcus Armstrong easily made the field, which left the two Dale Coyne Racing drivers to fight it out for the final position. Renus VeeKay was able to get in as the last driver with a four-lap average of 226.913 miles per hour in the number 18 Honda. His rookie teammate Jacob Abel was unable to surpass that speed. I talked to Abel about his disappointment afterwards on Pitt Lane at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

Jacob Able:

good place. We were always there or thereabouts on the no-toe and everything. But yeah, it's like something happened on Friday night. I don't know if someone came in there and stole all of our speed or horsepower. But yeah, as soon as we hit Saturday, we just didn't have any pace. And it honestly just kept getting slower and slower each run. So I hope they figure something out for Renus, because the Delta's pretty big, and it keeps just growing from us and the other cars. So yeah, I hope they find something. But regardless, we'll be back next year, hopefully.

Bruce Martin:

I just saw Nolan give you a hug. What did he tell you, Jacob?

Jacob Able:

Yeah, you know, no one knows this feeling better than him. You know, we've been friends the past few years, for sure, racing against each other. So, yeah, yeah, it sucks. You know, I do appreciate all the support from the other drivers. It kind of means the world to me. So, you know, Nolan included.

Bruce Martin:

And Jacob, you had such a great looking car, bringing Miller High Life back on the 40th anniversary of Danny Sullivan's spin and win. So just How crushing is it for you that you won't be able to celebrate that on race day?

Jacob Able:

Yeah, the 41st anniversary doesn't sound as good. So, you know, I mean, maybe we'll try and do something next year if we get the chance. But, yeah, you know, gutted for them. You know, they were on board. All the activation stuff was going to be really cool for sure. But, yeah, I'll still be here for sure. I'm a huge fan of this race. I've been to the past, you know, 12 of them. It's going to be hard to be a fan this year at the race for sure. Yeah, just going to keep moving forward. It's been a tough year so far. Just going to keep our heads down and hopefully our luck will turn around a little bit.

Bruce Martin:

But you're handling it very well. Where are you getting that inner resolve?

Jacob Able:

I don't know, man. Maybe I'm just covering it up well because I feel pretty crappy, to be honest. You know, it sucks. This is, like you said, it's a lifelong dream not come true. You know, it's very close to that. So, yeah, it's not easy for sure. I'm trying to smile through it, though. Keep your head up. Thanks, man.

Bruce Martin:

Marinus Wike had to endure the long, torturous process, but he is once again in the Indianapolis 500 field. Here are his thoughts afterwards. Just how tough was that to endure?

Rinus VeeKay:

Really tough. I've been in some nerve-wracking Sundays here at the Speedway, but that was for pole. This is for actually Good job, bro. Thank you. You too. See you on the last run. See you there. This was my first time really, you know, having to risk it all for starting the 500, so... I feel relieved, but just also kind of a sad feeling for Jacob. Not being able to make the field, you know, it's a special moment, making your first Indy 500. Unfortunately, he has to wait another year, but... Yeah, I mean, we were very slow out there today. Fortunately, not the slowest between the teammates.

Bruce Martin:

Is this far more gut-wrenching and nerve-wracking than running for the pole?

Rinus VeeKay:

Yes, definitely. And when you run for the pole, you have some euphoria going on. Right now, it's just a feeling like you're hanging on, but you're not sure what you're hanging on to.

Takuma Sato:

going back out before Jacob?

Rinus VeeKay:

Yeah, for me, the reason was they asked me, do you want to go out? Yes or no. The engine was warmer. I did not get to run the hybrid. I did not have that power on the first run. So the track got a little bit cooler. So we thought, let's go out. I don't want to leave anything up to chance. I did go out and go about a mile an hour slower and that was the same thing for Jacob. So I felt like with this car, the more we run, the slower we get. So we have to look into that because we need to make Sunday a good day after making it to the grid.

Bruce Martin:

Dale Coyne may have had the most difficult position on pit lane as the team owner of both cars fighting for the final position. He told me about the unenviable feeling of that when I caught up with him for this exclusive Pit Pass Indy interview. No team owner wants to have to go through that where you've got one driver that has to bump out another for the Indianapolis 500. So just how difficult is that to be on the timing stand in a situation like that?

Dale Coyne:

Well, usually you should be half mad and half sad, but we're obviously more sad than we are happy. But, you know, Jacob's done a good job all month bringing Miller beer back, you know, on the 40th anniversary of Danny's spin and win. All good stuff, but just didn't make it today. Just how crushing is it for Jacob? I mean, you get back on the horse and you go again, and it's what makes Indy Indy, right? If it was easy eight, you know, it'd be no challenge.

Bruce Martin:

And also for a team the size of yours, how big a hit is this to not have a car, one of your cars, in the field for the race?

Dale Coyne:

It hurts a lot. You do a lot of work to get sponsors. You know, Bill Abel's done a great job bringing sponsors on board. And so, no, it hurts, for sure.

Rinus VeeKay:

What was going through your mind knowing that with Rinas and Jacob sitting there and you know one of them was going to get in?

Dale Coyne:

That's the fun of the game, right? One of them is going to lose and one of them is going to win. It's like, I told somebody, it's like playing chess with yourself. You know what the other strategy is, but now you got two queens on the board. You don't know what the hell they're thinking. And we ended up where we ended up.

Bruce Martin:

It'd be much more fun if it was a driver from another team that you had to bump out than a driver from your own. Yes, no. No, that's no fun.

Dale Coyne:

And what do you see as being the reason why both cars struggled this month? We just lacked speed. You know, we did a lot of work on mechanical stuff and the gearbox and things over the wintertime and we know that helped from the testing we did. But something we're doing wrong, the setup of the car, the aerodynamics or something.

Bruce Martin:

On a positive note, we know that Renus is pretty good in the race, so you gotta look forward to him maybe being the hard charger, making his way up through the field. He likes doing that, and he's good here. Well, Dale Coyne, congratulations on making the last spot in the 33-driver starting lineup for the Indianapolis 500, and condolences for having the driver that missed making the field. Thank you. We'll be right back to Pit Pass Indy after this short break.

Will Power:

This is Will Power of Team Penske. And you're listening to Pit Pass Indy presented by Penske Truck Rental.

Bruce Martin:

Welcome back to Pit Pass Indy. As we mentioned earlier in the show, IndyCars penalized two Team Penske entries for a technical rules violation regarding modifications to the rear attenuator. The body part is designed for safety and attached to the rear of the gearbox to help absorb impact in a crash. Josef Newgarden will now start 32nd and Will Power 33rd in Sunday's race. That means they have a lot of ground to make up over 200 laps. Pit Pass Indy was a small group of reporters that met with Doug Bowles Sunday night after qualifications concluded as he explained the issue involving the two Chevrolet Indy cars.

Doug Boles:

I think what I want to do is just walk back through sort of the investigation and the understanding that I tried to get from the whole incident. So I'm gonna start back at the tech garage where all the cars that were in the Fast 12 started. So as the cars roll through tech, obviously a lot of things get inspected. The 12 car did go through tech. And as it was in tech, Rocket, Kevin Blanche, who leads our tech and the tech team, did notice something on the 12 car on the attenuator that they weren't sure about. Rocket believed that it was Likely an issue, but because we were trying to get everybody out and get him going He allowed them to go ahead and go on out the next couple of cars that came through There were two or three cars that came through in between the 12 and the two when the two came through It's the attenuator on the two was identical to the 12 and at that point in time rocket knew that we had something we had to We had to adjust to or at least address He did say to the crew chief of the two car at that point in time to please call Kyle Moyer right now who was with the 12 car and tell him to hold the 12 car because we were going to take a look at the attenuator. I'm going to back up a minute before I go farther. I did ask Rocket, I said, so is it a unique situation or can it happen? where you send a car through and later see a teammate's car with something on it that you believe is not consistent with the rules, and then go back out and see them on pit lane and actually do something. And from the moment you get in, and he said yes, absolutely, that does happen. So from the moment you get to tech, in any time after tech, even if you've passed tech, scrutineering can come, you still have to follow the rules. So that is not unusual. It doesn't happen often, but it is not unusual for that to happen. So at that point in time, Rocket was 95% sure that we had a rule that said you cannot modify the attenuator. We do have a rule, rule 14.7.8.16, which actually tells you which parts in the car you can modify, which body parts you can modify. Then taking a look at underneath that, the rule underneath it, the dot two of that rule says that if it's not listed here, you cannot modify that rule. So the rule, so that the attenuator falls under that rule that it cannot be modified. So at that point in time, as Rockets on pit lane, he did say to Kyle Moyer at that point, look, you've already presented, you're here, you've got two options. The first option is you can go ahead and qualify. And I'm gonna impound eight cars if your two cars are in the top six, because in post-qualification technical inspection, you will fail. Or you can withdraw the car right now. The team chose to withdraw the car and not qualify the cars, which then only meant we had to impound the six cars at that point in time. So from the point I've been here, I've really been trying to understand exactly where we got to that point. Both were found in tech by our tech team. The first one, as I said, the 12 car was allowed to roll out until it was seen on the two car that it was there until Rocket was 100% sure that there was a rule that said you cannot modify the attenuator on that car. And then, as I said, had the conversation with Kyle Moyer on pit lane. The team was given the option to qualify and likely fail technical inspection for attenuators that were not legal or withdraw the cars at that point in time. And the team chose to withdraw the cars at that point in time. Per the rule, because of the top 12, those cars will start at the back of the top 12. That's what our rule calls for, and that's where those cars will start. They will start in the order of their qualifying time from yesterday, including Scott McLaughlin's car, because essentially he failed that qualifying technical inspection by not showing up. So those cars, I believe they start in the order of the three, the two, and the 10 car in the fourth row of the Indianapolis 500 that will start. At the end of every event, we look at violations and rule violations that take place in each event. And that's the point in which we will decide if there are other penalties that will go along with that. You've seen that before in the past with financial fines and other things. It is not something that we deal with in the middle of a racing weekend. And likely here, we don't deal with it in the middle of the race. We will deal with it following the Indianapolis 500.

Bruce Martin:

The following morning, however, IndyCar made a much more severe penalty, sending both to the back of the field while suspending the two race strategists, assessing fines, docking points, and having the field re-choose the all-important locations on Pitt Road. Bowles explained the reasoning for the harsher penalties on Monday, May 19th.

Doug Boles:

You know, yesterday for me, sort of the lawyer training in me said, let's just make sure we have our facts correct. So spent quite a bit of time yesterday trying to understand how we got to the spot where we were. There were a lot of rumors circulating throughout, given the fact that it was on TV. And we just wanted to make sure that before we really made any statement, we knew exactly what had happened. So for those that missed that really quickly, the 12 car, The 12 cars yesterday in final qualifying go through a pre-qualifying technical inspection, and the 12 car did go through. When the 12 car went through, Kevin Blanche, our technical director, and his team noted on the 12 car that the attenuator might have been modified. And Rocket in his head was pretty sure that we had a rule, but he didn't have the rule book with him that stated that that could not be a modified part. And we do in fact have that rule. The next couple of cars that went through, they looked at the attenuators on those cars. They were clearly unaltered. And when the 2 car came through, the 2 car had an altered attenuator on it. At that point in time, Kevin said to the car chief of the 2 who was standing with him, will you please call the car chief of the 12 car and tell him to move the car aside because that attenuator also is illegal. At that point in time, just to give a little background of why that is as we quickly try and get cars through tech for pre qualifying so they can get out to the grid and qualifying, it is not unusual for it's not common, but it is not unusual for. our technical team to find something on a teammate car and actually go out onto pit lane and inspect a car, a teammate's car, just to ensure that if they found something on one car, it's not on the other. So the tech team did the job as they were supposed to. Some confusion happened on pit lane, I think, when members of the 12 car, I believe, started to grind on the back of the attenuator where where it had been modified, which then created, I think some rumors came out of that, but that was really the reason we were trying to think through the facts of that position. Rocket did talk to Kyle Novak, who's our race director on pit lane, to make sure that Kyle Novak agreed with him that we have a rule that says that that part, the attenuator, must be run as supplied. Kyle and Rocket both agreed. And at that point in time, Rocket did let the team know that the 12 and the two car could qualify if they'd like to. But in post-qualifying technical inspection, they would likely be disqualified because those parts are not legal. The team could either do that or they had the choice of pulling out of line. The team chose to pull out of line and take that option versus qualifying and being disqualified for sure as they went through the tech line. Our rule states that you will start at the back of the qualifying session in which you're qualifying. So, those cars were qualifying in the top 12. So, therefore, last night, as we noted, those two cars, the 2 and the 12 would go to the back, the 3. car who had been in an accident earlier in the day was already going to go to the back because he did not present to qualify and those three cars would have been lined up by the way that their qualifying speeds on Saturday were to get things started. Throughout the night and sort of getting into this a little bit more and frankly thinking about the integrity and the importance of this race IndyCar has a rule. It's rule 9.2.1. I highlighted a couple pieces of it here because I think it's important in this conversation. Penalties can be determined by the gravity of the violation and its impact on the fairness of competition. IndyCar has the authority to impose any or all or any combination of the following penalties against any member for any violation of the rules at any time. And it sets out a lot of things, all of which we, if you read the release, all of which we have the authority to do based on this rule. The thing that strikes me the most about this rule is the gravity of the violation. This is the world's largest motor sport event, the Indianapolis 500. This event defines who people are. And for us, especially on that stage, we believed that allowing the two cars, the 2 and the 12, to start in 12th and 11th, which is a place that they might have actually qualified in had they been allowed to qualify, was not a sufficient enough penalty and did not present an appropriate enough result for the violation. So therefore we have decided to move the 2 and the 12 car to the back of the grid. They will start in 32nd and 33rd position. The 2 car first and 32nd and the 12 car and 33rd based on their qualifying times. The 3 car. In our investigation of the three-car, and by the way, we do have the attenuators from all three of these cars. The three-car attenuator from the crash with the crashed wing still attached to it was provided to us and we still have it. That attenuator was not modified at all. So on Sunday, We can tell you by facts, again, the lawyer in me, that car was presented, when it drove at least, with an attenuator on the car that met all of the rules of the IndyCar Competition rulebook. So the three car will start in 10th spot, which will be the last car in the Fast 12 that did not get removed to the back of the field. So the three car will not have any additional penalties. Additionally, on the 2 and the 12 car, because of the gravity of this situation and the importance of this race and the importance of ensuring that the NTT IndyCar Series continues to have its integrity and so that we can continue to tech cars and know that when we tech cars and you bring them through, we expect them to be rural followers. Both of those cars will be fined $100,000. They will lose any points that they would have gotten for the final 12. Both strategists for those cars will be suspended from the Indianapolis 500 through the end of May. And at the end of today, we will redraw for qualifying pit positions, and the 2 and the 12 will get the last two positions available. So with that, I guess I just want to reiterate that I think our tech team did a fantastic job. We've got a group of people who are trying to get cars through in a very quick way so that we can make sure that we've got cars on track for our fans. We've got cars on track for television. Tech may begin at the tech pad and tech The teams know this. Tech does not end once you roll off the tech pad. The tech does not end even if you have a tech sticker on your car. At all times, cars must follow the rules of the IndyCar Series. And therefore, even if somebody might have missed something, which did not happen in this case, we can take a car on pit lane and penalize it for having a part on the car that does not fit the rules. You know, I'd much rather be talking about how great the Indianapolis 500 is, and how our ticket sales are, and how we had our biggest qualifying weekend in terms of attendance since 2016. But it felt to me like the most important thing for us to do today was set the field of the Indianapolis 500. One other thing, because I know I'll get a question about it, I'll just address it right now. When we left here on Saturday, we left here with the 30 fastest cars locked in. Some folks have asked me, why would you not remove the two cars. Those two cars, the 2 and the 12, qualified on Saturday. They had passed tech. We did not see anything illegal with those cars in tech. So therefore, we are starting the 33 fastest cars in the Indianapolis 500. The 2 and the 12 just happened to start at the back. This, I think I said at the beginning, it's the biggest race in the world. And paramount at the end, integrity for this event is paramount in order for us to continue to grow this event. And to me, the result of being able to start where you might have ended up qualifying anyway, had you been able to qualify is not a penalty deserving of what had happened there. So for me and for the team at IndyCars, we had a conversation this morning working through this. This is the right result. I didn't sleep at all last night. And you probably can't tell, but I frankly didn't take a shower this morning and my hair is a mess. And the first thing I did this morning was call Mark and Mark basically said the same thing. And, you know, the two of us sat down and started thinking through what is the appropriate thing to make sure that we're managing the integrity of the Indianapolis 500. Roger Penske was not involved in this other than to be told that there would be a penalty and it would be a severe penalty coming his way. And we did call Roger to let him know what the penalty was. And we called we called Tim Sendrick and we called Ron Rizewski, the team managers or the team strategists of those cars, to let them know what was coming. Ultimately, it involved a bunch of us trying to make sure that we had thought through everything as we went through this, even simple things like, this seems simple, removing their pit selection opportunity. That comes with some challenges because teams are going to practice today a little bit to get ready, but teams don't have to move, but there will be an option for teams to move. So, you know, we involve Mark Sibla and Kevin Blanche and Kyle Novak and Dave First and Alex Dameron, and just get the team together to make sure that we're thinking through exactly what we're doing here. But I would say it was walking out of the front door of his house and me walking out of the front door of my camper and happening to call each other at the same time and say, hey, we got to do the right thing for this event. And by walking out, I mean Mark.

Bruce Martin:

There's so much positive momentum that has been developed with the sellout and with a rookie poll winner for the first time since 1983. Pretty decent crowds there for qualification weekend in anticipation of Fox Sports first Indy 500. How do you keep those being the storylines and not have this overshadow those storylines?

Doug Boles:

The momentum of the Indianapolis 500 is still going to continue to be there. I've heard from since yesterday, even this morning, the number of text messages and notes I'm getting from fans on how great the weekend was and how excited they are for the Indianapolis 500. It's still there. The challenge right now is getting getting our paddock to feel comfortable that it's still there. We need our biggest stakeholders, the people that are investing in our sport, to believe that it's a level playing field and that they have every chance that anybody else does to win the Indianapolis 500 so that we're all singing from the same songbook. I don't think our momentum will slow going into this weekend. In fact, I think our momentum will continue to pick up going into it. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be right here right now addressing this the way we're addressing it.

Bruce Martin:

And also were you the one who told, who had to call Roger and tell him, and also for the second year in a row, Tim Sendrick and Ron Rizewski will not be part of this event. And that's, I made those calls.

Doug Boles:

Can you share how difficult they were? No, they're super difficult. I mean, that's the last thing I want to be doing right now is talking about penalties. I want to be talking about what, what a great event this is, how we have an unbelievably cool story and a rookie with a rookie team on the pole, on the, you know, Pato Award up front, you know, Pato Award won this race, people would explode. I mean, it's, do I want to be doing this right now? No. Do I want to be having those phone calls? No, I've talked to team owners. Mark's talked to team owners. None of them have been comfortable conversations, but as part of what goes with it, but it doesn't mean the momentum's changing.

Bruce Martin:

We'll be right back to Pit Pass Indy after this short break.

Scott McLaughlin:

Hi, I'm Scott McLaughlin, driver of the number three team Penske Chevy, and you're listening to Pit Pass Indy presented by Penske Truck Rental.

Bruce Martin:

And that puts a checkered flag on this edition of Pit Pass Indy presented by Penske Truck Run. We want to thank our guests, 109th Indianapolis 500 pole winner Robert Schwartzman of Prima Racing, Ryan Briscoe, Prima's racing advisor and driver coach, and drivers Takuma Sato, Pato Award, Scott Dixon, Renas VeeKay, and Jacob Abel, and IndyCar team owner Dale Coyne. Also, we want to thank IndyCar and Indianapolis Motor Speedway President Doug Bowles for joining us on today's podcast. Along with loyal listeners like you, our guests helped make Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental, your path to victory lane in IndyCar. On the highways, the raceways, and every pit stop in between, Penske Truck Rental keeps you moving forward. Gain ground with Penske. For more IndyCar coverage, follow me at X, previously known as Twitter, at BruceMartin, one word, uppercase B, uppercase M, underscore 500. Hit pass Indy presented by Penske Truck Rentals at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway for the 109th Indianapolis 500. We will have regular and bonus episodes all month, thanks to our friends from Penske Truck Rental and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Grandstand tickets are now sold out for the 109th Indianapolis 500 on May 25th. Penske Truck Rental and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway want to thank the loyal fans for making this the first sold out Indianapolis 500 since the 100th Indy 500 in 2016. General admission tickets for the infield remain, so get yours soon to see all the dramatic and exciting action of the Indianapolis 500. This has been a production of Evergreen Podcast. A special thanks to our production team, executive producers are Bridget Coyne and Gerardo Orlando. Recordings and edits were done by me, Bruce Martin, and final mixing was done by Dave Douglas. Learn more at evergreenpodcast.com. Until next time, be sure to keep it out of the wall.