Catching up with Arrow McLaren Team Principal Gavin Ward

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Bruce Martin:

IndyCar fans, it's time to start your engines. Welcome to Pit Pass Indy, a production of Evergreen Podcasts. I'm your host Bruce Martin, a journalist who regularly covers the NTT IndyCar Series. Our goal at Pit Pass Indy is to give racing fans an insider's view of the exciting world of the NTT IndyCar Series in a fast-paced podcast, featuring interviews with the biggest names in the sport.

I bring nearly 40 years of experience covering IndyCar and NASCAR, working for such media brands as NBCSports.com, SI.com, ESPN SportsTicker, Sports Illustrated, Autoweek, and SPEED SPORT. So, let's drop the green flag on this episode of Pit Pass Indy.

Welcome to Pit Pass Indy as we continue our fourth season of giving IndyCar fans a behind the scenes look at the NTT IndyCar Series, and the drivers and teams that compete in the Indianapolis 500.

One of the great things about the IndyCar off season is it gives us a chance to go behind the scenes and have deep dive interviews with some of the most important people in the series. It's a chance to develop a greater knowledge and understanding of what is happening at the race shops.

Today, we catch up with Arrow McLaren, Team Principal, Gavin Ward after a successful 2024 IndyCar Series season. Driver Pato O’Ward won three IndyCar Series races, including the season opening Firestone Grand Prix of St. Petersburg on March 10th, the Honda Indy 200 at Mid-Ohio on July 7th, and the first race of the Hy-Vee Milwaukee Mile 250s on August 31st.

It was also a very busy season as some drivers came and went without turning a wheel. That is what happened with David Malukas. He sustained a fractured wrist in a mountain biking crash in February and was unable to race.

When Malukas missed the first four IndyCar Series races of the season, his contract was terminated. Callum Ilot and Theo Pourchaire filled in for Malukas and Pouchaire was signed a contract for the rest of the season, but he was replaced by rookie driver Nolan Siegel, who signed a multi-year contract with Arrow McLaren in June.

Alexander Rossi announced he was leaving the team at the end of the 2024 season, and Arrow McLaren signed Christian Lundgaard, who finished out his time at Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing this season.

In between, Arrow McLaren and NASCAR's Hendrick Motorsports joined forces as 2021 NASCAR Cup Series champion Kyle Larson competed in the 108th Indianapolis 500 on May 26th. He was named Indianapolis 500 Rookie of the Year.

There's a lot going on at Arrow McLaren during the off-season, so let's find out more about it in my exclusive interview with Gavin Ward for Pit Pass Indy.

Joining us now on Pit Pass Indy is the Team Principle of Arrow McLaren Racing, it's Gavin Ward who's had a little bit of a busy off-season. I know you've had some testing with your drivers, not only at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, but at Iowa Speedway.

If you could maybe bring our listeners up to speed a little bit with everything that's been going on at your team since the season ended September 15th at Nashville Super Speedway.

Gavin Ward:

Yeah, I think everyone, with the long off-season we have in IndyCar, people have a tendency to sometimes maybe underestimate how much teams are up to in the “off-season” but we've been pretty busy.

We ran two days at IMS Indianapolis Motor Speedway which was a combination of some higher testing for Firestone, getting through the rookie orientation program that Nolan Siegel had to go through as he didn't take part in this year's Indy 500.

And also, a day of attesting that every team was able to run one car to do some work at the Speedway with the hybrid system. We chose to do that with Christian Lundgaard, giving us a chance to get him into our car, and get a head start on the Indy 500 prep work and the tire testing, we had Pato do.

So, we were fortunate enough to run all three of our drivers over two days at the speedway which is definitely a privilege because there's not a lot of testing we get to do there outside the month of May, and the open test we tend to do in April.

And then we had a really productive development day at Iowa doing work for Firestone in the series, trying to improve the quality of the racing product at Iowa Speedway, which involved Pato driving the car, running through a host of different Arrow packages and tire options, which was quite productive.

Bruce Martin:

It's interesting that the track that there's probably been the most testing at for the hybrid over the years since it began its initial development, was the one track that was left that the hybrid hasn't really competed on.

Of course, there's the street course races, you can't test on those until the actual race event, but the Indianapolis Motor Speedway was one race this year that was still the old formula. Does that seem kind of odd from your standpoint? That was really a test that was pretty valuable for some of the teams that hadn't run the hybrid at the speedway.

Gavin Ward:

Yeah, I think it's good to give everybody a chance there and just make sure that the series as a whole is prepared to go to our biggest event with the hybrid next year.

The truth is the hybrid impact on the car at oval racing in general has been smaller certainly than it is on road and street courses where the power, that energy boost you get from the hybrid is more effective on those types of tracks.

But also, you can recover energy for free when you're on the brakes, while when we're full throttle going around the speedway, there's no free energy recovery opportunity, so there's more downside to filling the capacitor pack up as well.

So, I'd be lying to say if it really changed the world when it comes to racing – it does make the cars heavier, it changes the weight distribution and those are probably more substantial than the actual energy themselves there.

Bruce Martin:

But one of the things that we discovered at some of the flatter short ovals was the racing was a lot better with the extra weight than we all realized. Why was that?

Gavin Ward:

I think really getting the tire right for the venue is a huge part of what makes the racing good on ovals. Also, a little bit the Arrow package, certainly, and I think IndyCar did a good job of bringing some good packages to some of those later races.

I think we all agree we need to do a better job at Iowa, and I think we found some interesting stuff going back there that I think will help. In terms of the weight of the car itself, I wouldn't have said from my point of view, it really jumped up as like, “Oh, that makes the racing better.”

But more other things really just being able to have … I think one thing that's interesting, it's not even that necessarily you need high degradation or drop-off on the tire to make good racing on the oval as we saw at Nashville or St. Louis, those aren't really super high degradation tracks like the old Iowa free repave was – that produced great racing.

It's more about can you make a tire work off on the higher line, give yourself more line use and don't throw as much marbles. Sometimes you go too soft, and the tires throw too many marbles and actually makes it worse, and I think that's a bit of a learning curve.

Also, I think we've been learning something actually by chance. Sometimes, we've run different tires for the high line practice sessions. I think the high line practice session stuff is really useful and when we run different tires for high line, sometimes, we run low stagger tires which have actually been more friendly for running the highline, so that's one of the things that we got to try out at Iowa, which I thought was pretty intriguing.

Bruce Martin:

Instead of saying that we all realized it was more like the racing was a lot better than we all expected it would be, some of the drivers didn't expect either Gateway or Milwaukee to really have that fair side by side action.

Now that the tire company at Firestone realizes that, and at the IndyCar realizes that, do you see even some more tweaks or do you think that package the way it was at those two tracks toward the end of the season was spot on?

Gavin Ward:

I actually think we could do even better. I thought the high line tire that they brought to … that we ran in Nashville, our drivers were pretty adamant, that would've been even better for racing. So, I think there's another step.

Again, I think learning that when we go tire testing, we need to really play around with high line usage, and in those racing scenarios is a lesson that the series I think has been learning and is a way we can all do a better job of doing what we want to do, which is put on the best show possible.

I think when it comes to the Indy 500, actually so far, and I think we need to be cautious with initial feedback because there's been a lot of times where I think the initial impressions of how good the racing is going to be at a venue has turned out to be wrong.

I think a lot of people thought that Milwaukee wasn't going to race well and it ended up racing very well for example. But I would say with the hybrid so far at the speedway in Indianapolis Motor Speedway, it doesn't feel like maybe it's quite as easy to pass.

Now, we know that the situation at the speedway for the last quite a few years is really, if you're not in the top four, it's almost impossible to pass. But I would say there's a feeling that it's maybe a little bit easier to pass if you're second, but harder to pass if you're third and fourth with the current package.

Now, I think again, the tire test was pretty interesting, and I'd say there's room to improve our racing product at the speedway with a more resilient right front tire, one that doesn't have quite as much takeoff under steer in traffic, I think that's the key to be able to follow. And I think there's also room to go on Arrow packages, but probably that's something for the 2027 car at this point.

Bruce Martin:

So, what did you learn at the test at Iowa? Because that was a track that had two different types of surfaces in the turns, and the racing that we all had seen in past years at that track which was really, really good, wasn't so good this year.

Gavin Ward:

Yeah, and I think the truth is you're not going to get old Iowa back with the repaves, in terms of that exact scenario of really high degradation kind of the grip available offline that you get with an old torn up track.

One of the things that you get when a track wears, you lose what we in like, sort of the geeky world, will call like micro roughness, which is sort of like sandpaper grit kind of roughness out of the tarmac, which gives you a lot of grip, but you kind of tear up the track and open it up a bit more, which we call higher macro roughness. So, kind of almost like voids in the surface.

All of that together leads to a situation where — and this happens particularly where the cars are driving so online. So, online loses grip but also that opening of the tarmac makes the tires overheat more – has to do with really how a viscoelastic rubber works because of the geeky nature of the science of racing.

But then you also find that offline, you don't have that wear on the tarmacs, so it actually has higher grip, and that gives you the broader area of the track to use. When you repave it, you kind of make that all homogenous.

But the other thing is really you're not going to get same sort of thermal degradation going on with a new tarmac. There's nothing to replace the effect of the aging of the tarmac and the wear and tear. But having said that, I think it's still possible for us to put on a pretty descent show with the repaved corners at Iowa.

It just takes a different approach. It takes a different approach really on Arrow package and I think they played around with that trying to trade underbody downforce for what we call like top body or downforce generated by the wings can make for a different amount of strength of the toe when you're following.

You can make that stronger by putting more downforce on the wings and left on the underbody. Also, the ride height sensitivity of the cars when they follow can change when you take that approach. There's some interesting things that I think the series is playing around with that.

But also, just from the tire point of view, again, making a tire that's more comfortable to run the high line, the low stagger. So, stagger being the difference in rolling circumference of the inside and outside rear tires. Actually stands to reason that if you're going to run a higher line, which is a higher cornering radius that you might want less stagger. The reason the stagger is useful is it's helping to turn the car in the tighter radius.

And also, nailing that working range so that you're not throwing the marbles up high and making that high line become unusable. Getting up in the gray is what we call it and what that is when really you have a lot of tire rubber that's getting thrown up there and it creates a marble situation.

Bruce Martin:

Now, when you were talking about the repave, the lower lane in turns one and two and three and four were repaved and that was done because of the NASCAR race that was out there about a month before IndyCar’s race in July. Would you like to see that entire area repaved or would it even help if they did a complete repave with the track?

Gavin Ward:

I think the complete repave is probably not going to be earth-shattering frankly. The bits that matters has been repaved, you're not really going to … I don't think you'd see an improvement. I don't think you'd obviously see an improvement in racing by repaving the whole track versus the partial repave.

I think if it was up to me, I'll be honest, I don't think I would avoid repaving any of the ovals we go to or any of the tracks we go to as long as physically possible, because I think what we've seen time to time again, is in general, older track surfaces get better racing. So, if you can patch it, if you can seal it, if you can get by without a repave, I think it's better for us.

Unfortunately, I think NASCAR has a very different opinion about repaves and maybe it's to do with how the Goodyear tires work. I don't really know enough about the details of their racing to get involved in that, but they certainly have a different opinion.

They have different opinion about putting down the compounds under the track to try to give you more grip as well and how that works with their tires is clearly very different to how it works with ours.

So, unfortunately, in a way, it'd be interesting to see if there was a way to effectively have less grip online. Part of the reason why when Milwaukee works, they work so beautifully, I think, is that that patch that they have on the bottom lane, which is the natural geometric racing line, if you had a uniform service that drivers would take, doesn't really have much grip.

So, it's usable enough because the line is helping it out, but it's actually lower grip, but you want to run higher and that gives you the variability in car positioning that makes for great racing. And Iowa had that in a different way because the racing line was all torn up. So, is there a way to do that from a fresh repave? I think that'd be interesting, but I don't think repaving the whole track fixes that problem.

Bruce Martin:

Also, when you repave a track, don't you create such a high grip level that everybody just dives to the bottom, hugs the low line, and it’s follow the leader?

Gavin Ward:

Yeah. I think when you repave a track, you create a really high grip level, as we saw the last times were really low at Iowa, and that in and of itself doesn't necessarily improve the racing. But also, you tend to have less degradation on new track services and that's just less sliding.

So, you're getting less sliding abrasion going on, on the tire because it's so stuck. Same way that when we run more downforce, you have less tire wear on our ovals because you're more stuck. I think you take it downforce off the cars, you're more sliding around, they tend to abuse the tire a bit more.

So, that in and of itself makes the racing a little more one dimensional from a strategy point of view. One thing that I think has made Iowa a great race in the past is that you have such speed differential between guys that have just come out on new tires versus guys that are at the end of their stint, and it makes a really strong undercut.

So, then you get this risk reward, trade off on the strategy where you pit, you get a big advantage from pitting early, but you also take a big risk if the caution comes out and that in itself is kind of leads to a more variety of strategies when you get no tire degradation, you see more what we saw at Iowa.

Everyone just wants to run long because you're just hoping you're not to get caught by a caution and there's no drop off, so you just get faster as the fuel burns off. So, it's really like all the incentive goes through running long, and then everyone gets on the same strategy, which makes for more processional racing. So, I'd say that's more of a thing than maybe like just the line usage when you repave.

But I still think you can have it better if you get a second line working so that that tire advantage does give you something that you can pass cars, then that means that people will be quite as boxed in on running one strategy.

Also, they won't be able to save as much fuel without getting overtaken. Those things is more like what we saw at St. Louis this year. You can get a second lane going and all of a sudden, the racing gets pretty good.

Bruce Martin:

So, what are your impressions so far working with Christian Lundgaard?

Gavin Ward:

I think he's made a really good first impression with the team. It's still early days but first off, very professional, but secondly, very likable. I think he's settling in really well, integrating really well with the guys and girls on the team.

Been pretty quite present in the shop. He’s got a little bit of traveling he’s doing now after he’s getting home, I think for a little bit and taking a bit of downtime. But I think it was a huge advantage for us to get him in the car for a proper day of testing.

Especially at the speedway, it's no revelation that Rahal has struggled there for a number of years, and with that it's been hard to really judge where Christian's confidence level is on oval racing. I think we know that he's had some great performances on road and street courses. It's a little hard to judge with the performance level of that team, where they've been on oval, just where he's going to be at.

But I think it was a really useful day, him as well, learning what is typical of an IndyCar at the speedway and maybe what was a feature of the car he's driven in the past. I think he was really methodical in building up to the limit.

Pato has been driving our cars for years. He jumped in to do the tire test and it's like going right back to what he knows. And I think I like Christian's approach, which was like, “I think this is normal, but I want to make sure I kind of go through the steps, not do anything silly and just build up to it.”

Because trying to really, as I said, unpick that – like what was the feature of the car you've previously driven and what is just the feature of IndyCars around the speedway, and learning that. And I think that's useful for us to see as well, to get that feedback too. But detailed feedback, good perception, he was pretty comfy in the car, pretty happy, knows there’s more to come, so, no, it was a good day.

Bruce Martin:

When you work with a driver that comes from a European background, such as he has compared to another driver on your team, Nolan Siegel, who's come up through the ranks of the IndyCar ladder system, how different is their approaches?

Gavin Ward:

It's interesting obviously, like my own background's got that mix as well. So, for me, it's pretty natural to talk to somebody who's got more of a European background, I think, but he's also had enough years now in IndyCar that he knows the lingo, he knows the setup changes. I think usually that's the kind of things that jump out.

It's like the words that are used for, are you pushing or are you understeering, are you lose, are you oversteering? And some of the oval specific terminology as well. You get really with the guys that grew up oval racing, how's the car off the wall? And things like that I don't think you hear a lot of Europeans bring in.

But at the end of the day, it's all race cars. I think when you've done the high-level work that he's done in Europe, you're pretty switched on to a lot of the engineering side of the sport, and yeah, Nolan's got a little bit more of a North American background, but he’s also raced in Europe at sports cars.

So, I think we've actually got a pretty good mix between the three of them. Like in terms of background, it covers quite a broad range. I think it's good to have a mix, bring together a mixture of talented people with a mixture of diverse backgrounds and try and pick the best and from what they have to offer and raise everybody's game.

Bruce Martin:

How valuable was the test being able to work with Nolan because he didn't join the team until midway through the season, and before that he was running for the Indy NXT Championship?

Gavin Ward:

That's right. I mean, again, for Nolan, I don't think you can understate how important confidence of the speedway is. To me, that was the thing that jumped out to me the first time I went there is like, in a funny way, it’s very similar to Monaco and F1. Those are two tracks, which are really, really … it's really important to have driver confidence.

And it means you approach things in a real methodical building up to it where you don't really want to put a foot wrong. And obviously, both Nolan and Christian have had some trying year … well, Nolan's had one trying year there with Coyne, and we all know how that went.

And he put it all on the line to try and make it into the show which was impressive in one regard. But he's got to now learn how to do this right with us, with our car, relearn the limits and what's possible, and then build that foundation of confidence.

Same thing with Lundgaard, he's got to kind of learn what's possible with our car and build that foundation of confidence, and we want to just build up to it. So, getting a head start and also working with a team, and he's got a new race engineer this year with Kate Gundlach and getting to work with her, great head start as we look into next year.

Bruce Martin:

Now, when you look at the beginning of your year and how drastically you had to change the driver lineup as you went along, what was it about Nolan Siegel that made you realize that the team really needs to lock them up now?

Gavin Ward:

I think we've been looking at Nolan for a little while and as probably the hottest prospect in the NXT field, and we know how well NXT drivers have been transitioning into IndyCar as of late, the Pato O’Wards and the Colton Hertas, and what have you. So, I think he was on our radar already.

Then trying circumstances, certainly through the 500 with Dale Coyne, but really impressed by the way he held himself, his maturity level, that's pretty rare to see. Also, some pretty decent performances in the other events like Nolan where he came in on the IndyCar side. And then finally, really working with United Autosports, Zak Brown sports car team at Le Mans and the LMP2 with their class win.

A lot of talented drivers have gone through that team, they've got a pretty good eye for talent. Lando Norris drove for United, and the feedback we got from over there was really glowing that Nolan was up there with the best and given his age, it was quite a decent runway. So, put those altogether and that's really what motivated us to get him locked in and we also wanted stability.

I think one thing that we probably didn't express well enough with the situation with Theo was that at the end of the day, he was a Sauber driver. We got Sauber to allow us to use his services, but they could pull him back at any time, and fundamentally, that was a huge risk for us.

Having seen how destabilizing for the whole team, having a driver change outside your control was the prospects of having that come up really outside of our control, again, were not particularly enticing. So, getting stability for the next two years in driver lineup is huge for the team.

Bruce Martin:

You brought up an interesting name in Dale Coyne, the fact that Nolan Siegel was running for both the Indy NXT Series Championship and also driving for Coyne and a revolving driver relationship that Dale Coyne was able to put together this year to keep two cars on the grid for every race.

He's a team owner that's always been able to make it work with such a small budget, but in a lot of ways, he's proven to be pretty valuable to the series for giving a lot of drivers their entry into IndyCar. As an individual who works for another team, and you look at a guy like Dale Coyne racing, what do you think of him and his value that he brings to IndyCar?

Gavin Ward:

I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head. Dale has been pretty exceptional talent spotter when it comes to bringing driving talent into IndyCar for many, many years now, and I think that's something that he deserves an awful lot of credit for.

But also, that's a team that's punched above its weight over and over again. As with many teams that have been around the sport for a long time, they've had good years and less good years, but at times, they've really taken it to some much bigger budgeted teams and bringing in some top talent. Most recent one that stands out is Alex Palou, but there are many more on that list.

Bruce Martin:

How far away would you say Theo Pourchaire is from a full-time IndyCar ride? It could have been with you guys, but as you said, he was the property of Sauber, and it was a gamble that you would've probably been wondering every day when the phone's going to ring and Sauber’s going to say, “We need him back.”

Gavin Ward:

I think he has the talent to be a successful IndyCar driver, and I really like Theo and I hope he gets another opportunity. Certainly, as I say, it's a tricky one being under a Sauber contract and how that is navigated. But yeah, I hope he gets another opportunity. I think he'd be a great addition to the series.

Bruce Martin:

We'll be right back to Pit Pass Indy, after this short break.

Welcome back to Pit Pass Indy. Here is the rest of my exclusive interview with Arrow McLaren, Team Principal, Gavin Ward for Pit Pass Indy.

Bruce Martin:

Now, there's another driver that we haven't spoken about who was a McLaren driver at the beginning of the year, but he never had a chance to really turn a wheel on a McLaren car. That was David Malukas who had fractured his wrist on a mountain biking accident back in February.

When you look back at the season, how big of a disappointment was it that you never really got to form any type of evaluation or see what he could have done with Arrow McLaren? You had to have a driver, you had to have drivers in your car that you could depend on. Some hopes and some expectations were placed upon them that we never, ever really got a chance to see how they would be.

Gavin Ward:

I think it's usually disappointing. We did our homework; we were more rushed and probably having to do the recruitment starting from Alex Palou informed us he wasn't going to honor his contract. But we were pretty excited for what David could bring to the team, thought we did a lot of great off-season work with him, getting him integrated, working with him on everything from strength and conditioning to working with a team.

And yeah, circumstances being what they were to not be able to see how that was going to play out was pretty heartbreaking for sure. One of those just terribly difficult decisions to make and certainly, not an enjoyable one.

Been happy to see him get back into IndyCar as I felt he would and put up some pretty good performances, and I'm excited for his new deal there and we keep in touch. He’s a good guy and who knows what the future would bring someday.

We're locked in for a few years here, but yeah, it was a shame not to get to really see how that was going to play out because I felt like we made a pretty good job of it in terms of reacting to that Palou situation.

Bruce Martin:

So, now that brings us to the star driver of the team, Pato O’Ward, three wins, including the season opener, which he wasn't first on the track under the checkered flag. He was later, as I like to say, awarded the victory after they disqualified the race winner or the apparent race winner that day, Josef Newgarden of Team Penske.

When you look back in a moment when you win an IndyCar race, you really want to celebrate it with that spur of the moment, sense of excitement when you see your driver take the checkered flag, an exhilarating feeling that you can't buy.

And in many ways to be denied that, to simply have the trophy waiting on you, the back step of the transporter at the next race, what are your thoughts about all that? That was really kind of a troubling time. The winner, your happy Pato got the victory, but in a lot of ways, I'm sure you would've much rather him cross the finish line in front of Josef Newgarden that day.

Gavin Ward:

Oh, absolutely, yeah. It's not the same, we still celebrated. I went and hit up Long's Bakery that morning when I got the news and brought in a hundred donuts for the team, ran around the shop giving people high fives, but it's not the same as winning the track.

It certainly was an odd one, and when we won at Mid-Ohio, we got to properly celebrate. So, that was nice. That was nice. I'm glad we got that. But at the end of the day, that stuff's outside of your control and a win's a win. Great to get three wins for Pato this year, the most of the teams ever won in one season.

But I think we also look at the season and feel there's a lot we can improve, a lot we need to improve to really achieve our goals in the series, which is to win 500 championships.

A great coach. I heard on a podcast recently said, “If you don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your system.” So, our focus here is just getting better and improving how we go racing so that we can bring more wins, but also fight for championships.

Bruce Martin:

His third win came at Milwaukee in the Saturday evening race that was held, and he really celebrated that one, but you had such a short time because the quick turnaround the next day for an earlier in the day starting time. So, what was that celebration like?

Gavin Ward:

That was an unfortunate one in a way. Milwaukee is the tail of the highs and lows of motor racing in one weekend. You don't have much time to celebrate, and then to go into the next race and have a mechanical DNF, failure in the gearbox that I think was from a spec part, not something that I think we really had a whole lot of control over.

We always look at what we can do better and I think that's the right approach to the racing team. But at the same time, if nothing else that emphasizes why in sport and in motor racing, I think while it's important to celebrate the victories and it's important to care, you do need to keep a fairly even keel and not run the extremes of the highs and lows of what the results bring in the sport.

You have to have something else that gives you a little bit more consistency frankly, in your motions because you might win on Saturday and then you might have the gearbox break early on in the race on Sunday, and that is a rollercoaster of emotions that's not sustainable in the long term, and you need to find the core motivation that's more how do we get better, and just enjoy that process of competing at the highest level.

Bruce Martin:

Is Pato O’Ward at the stage of his career – he’s still very young, but is he at that stage now where he is driven, almost obsessed to win an Indy 500 and a championship?

Gavin Ward:

Oh yeah, definitely. He's super driven and the world saw the emotion after him coming second at Indy 500 this year, but Pato really, really, really, really wants to win an Indy 500 with Arrow McLaren, and we really want to bring him the car and the team to do so, and I know we can do it and a championship.

I think it's not to be underestimated how hard it is to try and topple the Penske and Ganassi domination in this series. Penske, Ganassi, Andretti if you go back the last 20 years, the only people that have won championships in this series, but I feel like we're the best placed team to do that.

I think we're putting together the pieces, puzzle pieces bit by bit to do that. Have we done it yet? No. But that's what gets me up every morning trying to get that championship. Maybe Pato will get it, maybe it'll be one of our other drivers, but I want to give them the tools that they all have the opportunity.

Bruce Martin:

And now, in order to do that, you're going to have to beat a driver that at one point, was going to be your driver, and that's Alex Palou. When you look at three championships over four seasons, what makes Alex Palou so good?

Gavin Ward:

Clearly, the consistency he's been able to bring. That consistency of just bringing in top fives, that's the name of the game in IndyCar if you want to win championships, that's been his strength. If you go into the details of where he really shines, but at the end of the day, not a lot of bad days.

And we had too many bad days this year. We won more races than Palou did last year with Pato, but ultimately, it was our bad days that spoiled our chance of the championship.

Bruce Martin:

And the other thing that always strikes me about him, and of course, I haven't seen him behind closed doors, especially when it involves attorneys or anything – but he always seems to be a happy guy and to have that type of attitude when you're in IndyCar racing, which is very high stress, how important is that for a guy like Alex to have that type of demeanor?

Gavin Ward:

I think being able to perform under pressure is a lot about stress management. I don't think it takes one personality to be a winner in the series. I think you could take all kinds, but some people are going to need to bring down their level of stress, and some people are actually going to need to bring it up, bring up their level of arousal, you might say, in sports science to really perform in the moment.

That's just all part of the key to the game, but also setback recovery in terms of you will have setbacks in motor racing. One thing I thought that was Josef Newgarden's greatest strength when I worked with him, something I was always impressed of was his ability to bounce back after a bad day, and really not have two bad days in a row, that's key.

I grew up playing hockey as a goalie and I think I relate a lot of racing stuff, race driving to my experience in that. And I think, it's like you letting a bad goal, you got to be able to put it past you. And I think that's super key to being able to perform consistently over a whole year, those sort of attributes.

Bruce Martin:

Now, just a few big picture questions. I know your time's limited here, but during the IndyCar off-season, we've seen some pretty big things happen in a short period of time. One that really stands out is the fact that Michael Andretti is no longer in control of Andretti Global.

He's pretty much left the series in many ways. That team's now run by Dan Towriss. I would have to say that that's probably a move that a lot of people didn't have on their bingo cards. How surprised were you by that, and how curious are you to see how competitive that operation is in the future?

Gavin Ward:

Hugely surprising. It certainly wasn't on my radar at all to see that change come about. Wish Michael the very best. I think he's been great for the sport as a driver and as a team owner, and yeah, that was certainly a surprising bit of news.

I think Andretti has been in an interesting place where they've clearly been investing super heavily in their team, and they continue to do so. Will the results start to match the investments? That's the question, and will his investments continue.

But I think, to be honest, at the end of the day, I'm focused on us, what we can do better, how we build this team into what I think it can be, which is really a true dynasty. Are we there yet? Absolutely not. But I think we're putting together puzzle pieces, and I think the McLaren brand, the partners that Arrow McLaren have are so well committed.

The people we have here and the people we're bringing in are the right mix. So, I'm pretty excited really for that and can't control what other teams are going to do, so we just got to put our best foot forward.

Bruce Martin:

The next big move, the Grand Prix of Arlington IndyCar joining forces with the iconic Dallas Cowboys of the National Football League and the 2023 World Series Champion, Texas Rangers of Major League Baseball, gets IndyCar back into the Dallas-Fort Worth market in an exciting way with a street race.

When you get the promotional and marketing powers of Jerry Jones and the Dallas Cowboys along with the Texas Rangers to be able to join forces, to me, that looks like it's going to be a great hit. How do you view that event?

Arrow McLaren:

I think it's huge. I give a great credit to the series for pulling off what it looks like to be a really exciting new event, really well-supported. But also, for us, it's huge to have a race back in NTT data’s home stomping grounds, that's big for us as a team. It's a great market for the Mexican fan base for Pato O’Ward. So, that's also huge.

So, we're over the moon with it. I think having an exciting track layout like that, it looks really interesting. Looks like a great street course. We know we need to work on our street course performance. It wasn't our strongest suit in the past year, but we're working hard on that. So, hopefully come 2026 when we go there, we'll be fighting for the win with Pato, with a great crowd and a lot of support.

Bruce Martin:

Do you think IndyCar and Roger Penske, the owner of IndyCar, can feel a little bit vindicated because that is a pretty big marketing swing that they've taken, and one of the criticisms that they've had to fend off all year was people that said the series needs to market more. They are not taking major marketing initiatives. This looks like a pretty big marketing initiative to me.

Gavin Ward:

Yeah, no, it's a big win. I think we are very happy with the Fox TV deal as well. That was a big win this year from the series. I think this new event is extremely exciting. I'm excited for some news that I think we'll have in the future for maybe one or two more new events, and that’s the kind of buzz that we need.

The new car plan’s coming together slowly but surely. I think it's an ambitious timeline there. But we're very much in support of having a new car. So, there's a lot of good stories.

There's stuff we need to work on and I think Zak's letter, state of the nation letter nailed it and I hope the series sees that as us really just trying to help. We want to help make IndyCar into its full potential. But the Penske entertainment should pat themselves on the back for a few of those wins they've had lately.

Bruce Martin:

Speaking of Zak Brown, this has been a great year for McLaren’s Formula1 operation. You're off to the Grand Prix of Mexico and Mexico City with Pato O’Ward. He's going to drive the Friday free practices.

You come from a Formula One background, when you look at how this, the type of season that everybody is, wanted to see McLaren get back to the glory of its past, do you feel that they really nailed it this year?

Gavin Ward:

Yeah, and it's been great to see that performance of the F1 team and really across the board at McLaren Racing. I think it's a proud team to be a part of right now. They have F1, they're in the mix for leading the constructive championship, taking the max on the championship side.

Formerly, winning a race this year, making a decent step forward, us having our most successful year in terms of our win this year, a lot of positive momentum. We've got big investments going in on the Arrow McLaren side with a new shop coming towards the end of next year.

With us buying Andretti's old building they're moving out of, but then putting a really extensive renovation plan together before we moved in there – really trying to put together what is world beating teams in all these different areas of racing, and I think it's pretty neat to be a part of such a worldwide racing team with such great heritage.

Bruce Martin:

Well, there's a lot of great things going on at McLaren, and there's also a lot of great things going on with the IndyCar team at Arrow McLaren, and the man who leads that effort is Gavin Ward, the Team Principal, Arrow McLaren. Good luck during the off-season. Good luck in 2025 and thank you for joining us today on Pit Pass Indy.

Gavin Ward:

Thanks for having me.

Bruce Martin:

We'll be right back to Pit Pass Indy after this short break.

[Music Playing]

And that puts a checkered flag on this edition of Pit Pass Indy. We want to thank our guest, Arrow McLaren, Team Principal Gavin Ward for joining us on today's podcast, along with loyal listeners like you, our guests help make Pit Pass Indy your path to victory lane in IndyCar.

For more INDYCAR coverage, follow me at X, previously known as Twitter @BruceMartin_500.

This has been a production of Evergreen Podcasts. A special thanks to our production team. Executive producers are Brigid Coyne and Gerardo Orlando. Recordings and edits were done by me, Bruce Martin and final mixing was done by Dave Douglas. Learn more at evergreenpodcasts.com.

Until next time, be sure to keep it out of the wall.