IndyCar Returns to The Milwaukee Mile with Hybrid Assist Device Test

ROGER:

This is Roger Penske and you're listening to Pit Pass Indie, sponsored by Penske Truck Rental.

BRUCE:

IndyCar fans, it's time to start your engines. Welcome to Pit Pass Indy, a production of Evergreen Podcast. I'm your host, Bruce Martin, a journalist who regularly covers the NTT IndyCar Series. Our goal at Pit Pass Indy is to give racing fans and insiders view of the exciting world of the NTT IndyCar Series in a fast-paced podcast featuring interviews with the biggest names in the sport. I bring nearly 40 years of experience covering IndyCar and NASCAR, working for such media brands as NBCSports.com, SI.com, ESPN Sports Ticker, Sports Illustrated, Auto Week and Speed Sport. So let's drop the green flag on this episode of Pit Pass Indy. Welcome to Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental and Hy-Vee, as we continue our fourth season of giving IndyCar fans a behind-the-scenes look at the NTT IndyCar Series and the drivers and teams that compete in the Indianapolis 500. Our friends from Hy-Vee have returned for the month of June as Penske Truck Rental shares the show and the big build-up to the Hy-Vee IndyCar race weekend at Iowa Speedway July 12th through the 14th. This year's schedule includes a night race at Iowa Speedway on Saturday, July 13th, with another full race scheduled for Sunday, July 14th. Four of the biggest names in entertainment will perform before and after each race, including Luke Combs, Eric Church, Kelsey Ballerini, and Post Malone. For Malone, it will be the first time the famed entertainer has performed in Central Iowa. It promises to once again be the biggest racing weekend of the summer for IndyCar because of its big event stature and the debut of the hybrid assist unit for the first time in oval competition that will increase the horsepower along with the speeds and give the drivers another tool to work with in competition. Just two days after Team Penske's Will Power drove to an impressive victory in the June 9 Expel Grand Prix of Road America, 20 IndyCar Series cars and drivers were at the Milwaukee Mile for a near full-field shakedown of a hybrid assist unit. The hybrid will enter competition with the July 7th Honda Indy 200 at Mid-Ohio, and this was a test that served two purposes. It was a chance for teams to learn how to use the device, so it will use stored electrical energy to provide an additional boost of horsepower to the Honda and Chevrolet internal combustion engines. The second purpose was for the teams and drivers to run laps on the flat one-mile oval at Wisconsin State Fair Park. A longtime mainstay on the IndyCar Series schedule beginning in 1939, the last IndyCar Series race at the Milwaukee Mile was Sebastian Bourdais' victory in 2015. IndyCar is back in 2024 with the Hy-Vee Milwaukee Mile 250s, doubleheader races on Labor Day weekend. The first race is August 31st at 6 p.m. Eastern Time, and the second race of the doubleheader is Sunday, September 1st at 2.30 p.m. Eastern Time. It's all part of Hy-Vee's Summer of Speed, which kicked off Saturday, June 15th with the Hy-Vee Perks 250 NASCAR Xfinity Series race at Iowa Speedway that was won by Sam Mayer after a dramatic battle with Riley Herbst and Corey Heim. It continues July 12th through the 14th with the big Hy-Vee IndyCar race weekend at Iowa Speedway and culminates with the Hy-Vee doubleheader at the Milwaukee Mile Labor Day weekend, August 31st to September 1st. Hy-Vee is a proud supporter of the NTT IndyCar series throughout the season. Pit Pass Indy was at last week's test, the Milwaukee Mile, as Will Power was the fastest driver at 161.521 miles per hour in the No. 12 Verizon Chevrolet. Team Penske teammates Josef Newgarden and Scott McLaughlin followed at 160.759 miles per hour in Newgarden's No. 2 Chevrolet and 160.639 miles per hour in McLaughlin's No. 3 Chevy. And Dreddy Global's Colton Herta was 4th at 160.137 mph in the No. 26 Gainbridge Honda, with Arrow McLaren driver Petto Award rounding out the top 5 at 159.993 mph. The 20 drivers ran a combined 2,403 laps in the two sessions. Counting two simulated races, 3,563 total laps were turned in one day at the Milwaukee Mile Test. For 22-year-old David Maloukas, it signaled a fresh start in the NTT IndyCar Series. On February 9th, Maloukas fractured his left wrist in a mountain biking crash during the off-season. He had surgery on February 12th and would miss the first four races for Errol McLaren's IndyCar operation. By missing the first four races of the season, Errol McLaren terminated his contract on April 29th, and the future appeared grim for the kid from Chicago. But another story was developing at Meyers Schenck Racing, as rookie driver and sports car star Tom Blomquist was having a difficult time adapting to IndyCar. After the 108th Indianapolis 500 when Blomquist struggled to get into the starting lineup and never made it through turn one without crashing on the opening lap of the race, the team pulled Blomquist from the car for Detroit and rode America, replacing him with team partner driver Elio Castroneves for those two races. Team owner Michael Shank and Malukas began to negotiate a deal, and 7 to 10 days after initial discussions began, Malukas was signed to a deal at Meyer Shank Racing. He drove an IndyCar at speed for the first time since his injury on the flat 1.015 mile Milwaukee mile. Malukas was the leader for most of the first test session before four veteran drivers knocked him down the list to fifth near the end of that session. Malukas finished fifth in the opening round of the test with a best lap of 159.293 miles per hour. He ran a total of 74 laps in the first session. He finished eighth in combined practice speeds and ran a total of 111 laps in the morning and afternoon test sessions. For Malukas, his long season of recovery finally showed some promise for his future. I caught up with Malukas at the Milwaukee Mile during a break in the test for this exclusive Pit Pass Indy interview. We're in hybrid assist testing against Milwaukee Mile. Now we're joined by David Malukas. David, you looked pretty good out there in the first session. You were the fastest. This has got to feel really great jumping into an Indy car and being fastest, even if it is a test.

DAVID:

Yeah, of course. I mean, I think at the end there, we had some people put some new sets on and kind of go down. But I think in the end, still very, very strong. I think from the team-wise, all around, we have very good cars and just really good chemistry. I mean, the team has welcomed me like family here, and obviously, the performances are immediately there. I did a few laps on the first set, and after that, I felt like I was right back at home. So, all very good from my side.

BRUCE:

How long have you looked forward to this day?

DAVID:

Honestly, so, so long to the point where I felt like, you know, I don't know, something was happening to me. Like, you know, all these bad things were happening to where I couldn't get back in the car. And I mean, from these past two days, I have like driven safer than I ever have on the roads, walked safer, you know, looking at everything, making sure I'm taking my time. And I'm like, I just, I really need to get back in this car. And even then, you know, like I got back in the car and then in the car, it's like, oh, schedule change. We're going to wait another 30 minutes. And I'm like, man, Please just get me in the car. So it's felt amazing. And yeah, I'm just, I'm so, so happy.

BRUCE:

But when you begin with the accident where you fractured your wrist, that was early February. You had surgery after that. And then your career was really in limbo from that point forward. Even though you had assurances that you could return to Errol McLaren, once you missed the fourth race, they exercised their option. Did you think this day would happen?

DAVID:

Uh, man, absolutely not. I mean, this kind of came very much as a surprise, you know, after the whole Aaron McLaren deal happened, I said, well, you know what, at least now I don't have to rush and I can make sure that this hand is healed. And the way we did everything with the doctors and everything, we, we kind of slowed it all down. And then right after the 500, it was, uh, obviously all this happened. So I'm like, Hey, by the way, actually, I need a, can I be back in a few weeks here? And, uh, we work with the doctors and I mean, everything's still healed very well. And they said, yeah, we could get back in. It did the release and now we're here.

BRUCE:

When did you get a first inkling from Meyers Schenck Racing that they were looking to make a driver change?

DAVID:

Oh man, I mean it was a few days after the 500 is when kind of the talks happened and it honestly once the announcement kind of came online is kind of when I first started talking with Mike Schenck. And then from pen to paper, I mean probably seven to ten days is how much it happened.

BRUCE:

what do you think of Mike Shank? He seems to be a very enthusiastic, upbeat guy.

DAVID:

Oh yeah, no, he's incredible. I mean, he is, he's always right here with the guys. We were doing C fit at road America until 9. P.m. He was there waiting with everybody, just supporting the team. And you can tell that he, from his side, he wants to be competitive. He wants to perform And he's very much involved in everything, and it feels very good to have that as from the boss. And he's very intelligent on everything that he does, too, and giving us a lot of insight on the stand. So I've had a really good relationship with him, and I'm excited to actually get racing with him.

BRUCE:

What do you see the upside being at Meyers Schenck Racing? You've got Felix Rosenquist as the veteran driver. You have Alio as a partner, a team partner who runs a few races here and there. And then you got yourself a young driver, star of the future. So what do you see the upside being here at Meyers Schenck Racing?

DAVID:

I mean, I think it's really good the way it's all connected. And with it being very family oriented and having good chemistry, it's something that I was used to. So coming into it, I've already felt like home. And having Felix in and Elio, like you said, it's a really good group of guys. And it's a good trio for me, because obviously I'm still 22 and I still have a lot to learn. And Elio's been on my stand that session, giving me a lot of insight. I mean, he has history here. He knows his track. So even things like that, it's already been massive. So all of it is added to how our performance has done today.

BRUCE:

You've never raced at the Milwaukee Mile, but you've heard about it. And obviously being from the Chicago area, it's got a lot of history and heritage. What do you think of this track?

DAVID:

You know, it's going to be interesting. The inside line, on that black asphalt there, there's less grip there. It's going to be interesting to see how it's going to play out from a racing point of view, but so far, just running and doing laps, it's something that I feel very comfortable with being a short oval, although it has its own little characteristics with the banking being very, very small. It's interesting, but so far, I think it's good.

BRUCE:

And what do you think of the hybrid assist unit? Everybody's using it today. It's kind of a fine-tuned, last-minute, or a dress rehearsal from MidOhio. What do you think of the hybrid assist unit so far here on an oval?

DAVID:

Yeah, I really like it. It adds definitely a lot of play when it comes to deployment stages and when to do it if you want to do two shots versus one shot. So I'm very much enjoying it. Obviously, I did a lot of testing with the hybrid when it came to Aaron McLaren in the offseason, but coming into it, it still feels very similar. And now kind of just picking and choosing the differences from Honda to Chevy.

BRUCE:

Does it disrupt the downforce or the handling of the car when you deploy it?

DAVID:

No. I mean, in some ways, yes. I mean, it depends on the state of the tire. I mean, we were doing some deployments pretty early on coming out of Turn 2 on very old tires, and, you know, it definitely was putting a little bit of pressure on that right rear wanting to kind of let it slide, but it's not too bad. Overall, I think it just adds another little toy that the drivers can play with.

BRUCE:

And how long do you think it will take before everybody figures out when to use it and when not to?

DAVID:

I mean, I think it'll come pretty quick, you know, because at the end of the day, I think, you know, all the Honda, you know, drivers, all the Chevy drivers are all working together, you know, in unison to make sure that it's there and ready and all the information is shared. So I think we'll be there pretty soon.

BRUCE:

Well, David Maloukas, welcome back to Active Duty. Now that you're with Meyers Schenck Racing and you're going to get a chance to run the rest of the NTT IndyCar Series season. Good luck with the rest of the year. We'll catch up later in the summer. Thank you for joining us on Pit Pass Indy. Thank you. There were some mixed opinions from the 20 drivers that tested the hybrid assist device, as many try to learn the nuances and intricacies of the unit that can recharge in a variety of ways, from braking to paddles on the steering wheel. One of those drivers is Christian Lungard, driver of the number 45 Hy-Vee Honda at Ray Hall Letterman Lanigan Racing. Lungard gave his initial thoughts to me in this Pit Pass Indy interview. So what do you think of it so far? Uh, it's...

CHRISTIAN:

I think I'm a little surprised by the lack of grip. The surface doesn't really seem to activate the tires. Other than that, I mean, we're getting around and we're learning. We need to find some more speed for sure. But I think Graham's leading the way right now, so that's quite positive.

BRUCE:

Is it living up to its challenge of what you've heard about the Milwaukee Mile from your team owner, Bobby Rahal, and everybody? Because it always has been considered a pretty tough track.

CHRISTIAN:

Yeah, I think so for sure. But I also think that this is one of the tracks where perhaps the European drivers will also shine a little bit more because it's flat and it's just high speed. But I think what we really, at least what I struggle with right now, is just to understand where the grip really is because it's super, super slippery. And there's a lot of drop-off in the tires, so they work. They're very good for the first three, four laps, and then they drop off quite significantly, but then they stabilize there, and therefore it's pretty difficult to really optimize the car, I think. But I think as a team, we lack a little bit of speed at the moment.

BRUCE:

How about the hybrid assist unit some drivers have said get a little bit of a handling issue when it's deployed?

CHRISTIAN:

I don't think when it's deployed is an issue. I think it's just it depends on how aggressive you are on the regen really. I mean we Some laps I prefer it regening more than others, depending on what the balance is. Sometimes you just prefer it to stay stable and not really regen, just turn it off. Luckily, we have the tools in the cars nowadays to be able to do that, which is nice, but it's going to be tough in race mode. Obviously, we'll see that later today. We're probably going to do some traffic running and seeing how it's going to turn out.

BRUCE:

Lundgaard was asked if any of the drivers know exactly when to use it, regenerate it, and deploy it to their advantage.

CHRISTIAN:

No, I don't think anybody has. And I think that's a little bit of a challenge for all of us. For us as a team, we've run the hybrid once before. We've only run it at IndyGP for a test, and this is the second time that we run it. And it's an oval we're trying to figure out how much we really need a regen for the amount we are allowed to deploy, to not over-deploy, and then get into the point where it stops regenning mid-corner because you're suddenly at full state of charge. And that's the challenge, really, because it all depends on if you want to have it more aggressive so you have a more consistent balance and so on. But I think the deploy is pretty straightforward. I mean, you press a button, that's pretty easy. That depends. I mean, it also depends on how much you have left. But you burn it off pretty quickly.

BRUCE:

How much do you feel it when it deploys?

CHRISTIAN:

You feel it, but it's not mind-blowing.

BRUCE:

Is it as mind-blowing as push-to-pass?

CHRISTIAN:

It's a very mild push-to-pass. I don't think so. I mean, you have the possibility to just turn it off, right? I mean, you don't have to use it, so I think it... It's really up to the driver what he prefers. Of course, we want to get as much information on it as we want, but I also know across the three drivers in our team, it's very mixed on what we prefer. And I think that comes down to driving style and just how comfortable you are with the tools that you have on the wheel. I think, especially qualifying, I think it's going to come down to just use it when you feel like you're going to use it or you burn it all on the first lap and then you leave it as it is. But again, that comes down to you're going to have a balance shift for the second lap. So I think it's too early to really say. I think we're all learning. I know Will has been here testing the hybrid system. So I think perhaps he has a little more information than the rest of us. But I mean, I would say it all depends. I mean, again, you can turn it off if you like, right? So it's going to be as complicated as you make it.

BRUCE:

Lundgaard represents Hyvee throughout the NTT IndyCar Series season and spoke about the honor he feels representing the company on the racetrack.

CHRISTIAN:

It's always important, obviously, what HyVee does for the series and for the sport in general. I've said it before, I'm proud to be a part of that. I would be prouder if we were a little faster. But that's a part of the journey and we're moving forward. I think today was a little bit of a shock for us. So we definitely have some improvements to be made this afternoon.

BRUCE:

Are you going to be watching with interest the Hyvee Xfinity Series race in Iowa this week? Absolutely. And how do you think that'll go?

CHRISTIAN:

I mean, to be honest, I don't really watch the NASCAR races. I watch the big ones. Sometimes I watch the playoffs. But I haven't really understood how the entire system works, and I think that comes down to not really watching it.

BRUCE:

But the fact that your sponsor is involved with the Xfinity race, are you doing it more so to support the sponsor and Iowa Speedway?

CHRISTIAN:

I mean, absolutely. Yes and no. Uh, it doesn't necessarily increase my interest in, in the series, but of course I want to also want to see what, what they're doing to, to Iowa for, for a race weekend like that. And, you know, we, we're all trying to learn from each other as well.

BRUCE:

Marcus Ericcson of Andretti Global ran plenty of laps during the development of the hybrid, but this was the first time he has raced at the Milwaukee mile. Here's a pit pass, any interview with the talented driver from Sweden. What do you think of it so far after running it this morning?

MARCUS:

Track is really fun. It's low grip and bumpy and slidey, but it's fun. The hybrid system has been working well. We started off just trying to obviously figure out the car, have a good baseline car, because we haven't been here for such a long time and obviously I've never been here. So first few runs was all about that. And then after that, we started exploring the hybrid system, trying different settings on it and different techniques. So it's been a lot of learning this morning, but everything has been working really well.

BRUCE:

One of the crew guys said that they've discovered that once it's deployed, it gets a little bit of a handling issue with the car because of the extra horsepower. Did you feel that?

MARCUS:

I mean, you can feel it deploying, yeah, so it depends when you deploy. If you deploy in the middle of the corner, you're definitely going to put yourself in some trouble or potential trouble. So you need to be precise in when you deploy and smart about it. And then the same with the region, you know, that does things for the handling of the car when it regions into the corner or wherever you want to region. So it's definitely a tool that's, I think, from track to track, from team to team, from manufacturer to manufacturer, you have different techniques on how to do it. That's what I like about it, that hopefully it's going to be something that you can do different to your competitors.

BRUCE:

Eriksson was asked about the strategy of how to use the hybrid assist and how it will add variety to the racing.

MARCUS:

Yeah, that will be the interesting thing, I think. You know, the hope that I have is that we don't end up that everyone is doing the same thing, right? Like everyone is finding the optimal strategy and all doing that. I think the way the system is quite manually, it's good for that because then you can do it differently to your other drivers out there. So we will have to see. a bit more, you know, this is still very early days, but I'm hoping it's going to make the racing even more interesting because you're going to have people doing it better than others and doing it different to others and that should, you know, make it interesting to watch. I think so, I think the drivers that has a lot of brain capacity is going to be the ones that comes out on top because Even here on Short Oval, you have obviously your weight jacker, you have your front and rear bar to play with, and now you have the hybrid unit and different settings and all that, and deploy and regen. So a lot of things going on there behind the wheel, and to do all that with tyre wear, with cars side by side with you, it's going to be tough and it's going to be tricky. Some drivers, they jump in and just drive and don't think about anything, and I think that's not going to work very well in these cars with the hybrid in them.

BRUCE:

Is it going to increase the chances for mistakes?

MARCUS:

Yeah, I think so. I think people are going to make... It's going to be easier to make mistakes with this. It's going to be a bit more difficult. But, you know, that's why we're here. You know, we're some of the best drivers in the world driving these cars. So if it would be easy, you know, everyone could do it.

BRUCE:

You weren't in the series in 2016, the last time they ran here. But what do you think of this place? It's flat. It's a lot of traffic. It's historic. How do you like the Milwaukee Mile?

MARCUS:

I feel like it's, it reminds me of Iowa, but flat. So it's like a flat Iowa. And I love Iowa. I think the racing there is some of the best we have in IndyCar. So I think it's really fun. It's, you know, it's tricky to find the right lines and, you know, the The two ends are a bit different, with those patches as well, you know, they are a bit different grip levels. So it's definitely a trickle-y level, but yeah, I love it. I've had a lot of fun so far and can't wait to come back here and race.

BRUCE:

It was also open six years before the Indianapolis Motor Speedway did.

MARCUS:

Yeah, I mean, it has a lot of history and I think as a series, you know, I love that we're going back to more ovals this year. I think that's super important for us as a series. So it's a great step. It's a great thing to be back here. And like I said, I think the racing is going to be awesome here when we come back.

BRUCE:

With so many tools inside of the cockpit for a driver to be aware of while running at high speed, Eriksson explained the chaos of keeping everything straight in the cockpit.

MARCUS:

It's definitely busy, and like I said, the balance does change when the car is regen, when the car is deploying. It does do things to the balance of the car. Especially when you get on used tires, when you're fighting people, that can catch you out, so you have to be on top of your tools. You always have to be on top of your tools on the ovals. It's crucial. That's the best drivers. They are the ones that really are on top of their tools, and the hybrid is going to make it even more important.

BRUCE:

What about the really brave drivers that can use the hybrid assist with the push-to-pass at the same time?

MARCUS:

Not on old, but on road courses to be able to do that at the same time. No, I mean, it's going to be even more interesting to, you know, implement that as well on top of all the stuff with the hybrid. So again, I think the biggest thing for me is just going to be for the driver to be able to do all these things. At the same time, we need to drive as fast as possible, you know, driving-wise. But you have so many tools now in the car with this added hybrid that it's going to be tricky. And I think some drivers are going to make it better or will be better than others in this new era.

BRUCE:

We'll be right back to Pit Pass Indy after this short break.

WILL:

This is Will Power of Team Penske and you're listening to Pit Pass Indy presented by Penske Truck Rental.

BRUCE:

Welcome back to Pit Pass Indy. Let's continue with more reaction from the June 11th test at the Milwaukee Mile with the fastest driver of the test, Team Penske's Will Power. So you're one of the few that have raced here before. Are you going to make sure this time you have protection for the cream puff?

WILL:

Look, if I'm getting the cream puff, that's a big deal. That's a good day, so I don't care. Just protect those ears, though. Yeah, I know you've got to protect the ears, but I'll be ducking and weaving. You have Montoya and Canaan, so it's not going to be a problem.

BRUCE:

So what do you think of the hybrid assist here?

WILL:

Yeah, you feel it. It's probably going to assist in a passing. If you've got to run on someone, I think it'll work. Yeah, yeah. I think it's situational, yeah. I think there's an optimal way in a qualifying sim to use it. You'll sort of work out the best time to use it. You'll probably only get one shot at it because you're not lifting that much to regen.

BRUCE:

You're the first driver that said they'll feel it. A lot of the drivers said it's been underwhelming.

WILL:

Yeah, I mean, you do feel it. Yeah, I just don't know what to say. I mean, you feel it. I don't think it's going to change much in that respect, to be honest. I think it will be more about the reliability as we get to learn the systems, what's going to affect races and results. Oh, yeah, yeah, no, no. On an oval like this, yes, definitely better about the car makes the biggest difference. You can't. A little bit of horsepower doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's the same system. It's just there's no, we're not having issues with it. They got to a point where we can, you know, I think everyone's pretty, it's working well.

BRUCE:

Has the track changed since you last raced here in 2016?

WILL:

It hasn't changed much. I think those patches don't seem to have much grip though in the middle of the corner, which was really good for passing in the past, but It's the same track, man. It feels exactly the same. Did you miss this place? I mean, I did real well here. I did like it. It's one of my favorite ovals. I have been looking forward to coming here. You always feel much better that week and then you're back to business. Already in testing, I'm already back to like, we got to get this car working well here so we can do well. Yeah.

BRUCE:

How did you celebrate the Elkhart Lake victory?

WILL:

A couple of green teas. I think I had a couple of marshmallows too, so it was big for me.

BRUCE:

What about the ice bath?

WILL:

I didn't do the ice bath. I had a nice steak last night, actually, at the Fista. That was very good food. Very good. Like, the chopped salad's incredible. Like, crazy, man. You should try it. That's a night out by myself.

MARCUS:

Is there anything, being the first, you know, going to middle, how to win with the hybrid, just anything behind?

WILL:

Being the first? Being the first one? Being the first to win? Yeah. Oh, being the first to win. That'd be good. That'd be good. I mean, I don't think it's that big of a deal, but it's a big deal for the championship more than being the first hybrid winner. Yeah.

BRUCE:

The fact that we'll start an oval portion in a couple of weeks will be heavy ovals the rest of the season. Starting with Iowa, how do you see your oval game?

WILL:

I would say if Iowa wasn't resurfaced, we'd be pretty confident. But the resurfacing will definitely change the racing there. They're running a very hard tie here, so it's not a big deck profile. I think that makes it very track position. Track position will be extremely important. It's not exactly what I expected. Coming into the season, I was thinking both tracks would be very good for us, but it's a little bit unknown, to be honest.

BRUCE:

But just coming back to Milwaukee, the historical significance of IndyCar at Milwaukee, you were part of that. How important is it?

WILL:

Coming back here? Yeah, I mean, you know, it's one of those tracks we have a lot of history, a lot of big names, one of this race. You know, I don't know how much of a difference, how much does that matter? I don't know. I just think we need to go to events that draw big crowds and are promoted well. I think that's more than anything else is what we need to do. Yeah, I'm just totally developing my car right now. I'm just hardly touching the hybrid.

BRUCE:

Pato Award of Errol McLaren was more impressed about his first laps at the Milwaukee Mile than he was the Hybrid Assist Unit. He would rather have a bigger boost in horsepower, and that may come in time. Award joins me to give his initial thoughts on the Hybrid and the Milwaukee Mile. So what did you think of the Hybrid Assist Unit? What did I think of it?

PATO:

Honestly, we haven't really used it much. I mean, to be very honest, I think we're not, uh, we're not really exposing its limits yet. So we're actually, I mean, it doesn't really make much of a difference if you use it or if you don't use it. Um, so yeah, um, I'd like to see what we can, you know, as a series really extract more from it because I think where we at, where we are with it right now, um, it's, the difference and the change isn't big enough in order to be like, oh, you know, we're using the hybrid. It kind of just not really. Yeah.

BRUCE:

What do you think of the Milwaukee Mile?

PATO:

I love it. I think this is going to race fantastic. It's very enjoyable. It really is. It's reminds me a bit like Iowa, but just obviously less banking. But it's a bit old school like that. And it kind of To me, it seems like a bell isle, but in oval form. Really cool. Yeah. That's what it feels like. I mean, it's just it's got it's got it's bumpy. It's very old school. The pit lane is very different and it's kind of just there. And, you know, I think it's going to dig quite a bit like Iowa. But yeah, I think it's cool. Ward understands the true value of the hybrid assist will come in time, but for now he downplays the addition of the unit Yeah, I think it's just a work in progress But you know the more that we can kind of use what this hybrid system can bring To the series, I guess. I think the better it is going to be. But just I think right now we're you know, we're all working within certain limits that we can work with. And it's just. It doesn't really don't really change the the wave, if that explains it. So I think. A lot of the guys are probably not even using it, and I wasn't I wasn't really touching it. Yeah.

BRUCE:

Is it a track-by-track thing, where you use it, where you won't?

PATO:

Yeah, I think it'll be different in road courses, street courses, compared to ovals. But you can definitely feel it somewhat working, but it's very minimal. I mean, I'd like to see just a different... I would like it to be a bit more of a shift in terms of performance and just what we get to feel, and as well for the fan. I know Chevy and Honda, along with the series, have put in so much money into developing this thing. For the amount of money and the amount of work that's gone into this, I'd hate it to to just see it stay like this because, to be honest, it really does no difference. So with the bursts of hybrid, the push-to-pass boost feels quite a bit less. So it kind of just takes its place in a way. But you'll be busy. You'll definitely be busy. Yeah, a lot of clicking. It's just... I think the issue that we're going to run into is the gains that it gives you aren't big enough in order for you to shift focus on actually trying to use it the most efficient way possible versus just trying to make a perfect lap with a good setup and everything. That's what we're running into. It's where there's still There's still a ways to go in order for it to be like, OK, it is definitely the way to do it. And we have to use it in order to to really have a shot at the fast six or whatever. Right now, there is more lap time and actually making sure your car and your setup is good and perfecting how you get through a corner versus like, oh, I need to engage it here. So yeah, I think they're going to deg more. So I think sometimes it will actually push you to not use it.

BRUCE:

We're getting ready to approach a major portion of oval races for the second half of the season. So where do you see your oval game at the moment?

PATO:

I would say every time we go to an oval, As a team, we feel that we have a shot just like anybody else. I wish I could say the same about road and street courses. I think in select ones we do, but in other ones I do think we're at a deficit. That's just our current reality. But I've really grown to love ovals and oval racing. It's very, very fun. It's very different, a completely different beast, but it's quite nice that you get to get creative with how you run certain strategies and how you set up the car. Everybody's a little bit different. I'm looking forward to the six ovals, the last eight races in the championship, I think. That'll throw in a pretty nice mix into the championship for sure.

BRUCE:

And how about a doubleheader here? Night race and a day race.

PATO:

Love night races, so I'm all for them.

BRUCE:

Thank you. Graham Rahal is an old pro at the Milwaukee Mile and has been a veteran of IndyCar since the 2007 Champ Car Series season. He takes a more mindful approach to the hybrid assist unit and believes that in time it will be a valuable addition to the NTT IndyCar Series season. Here are Rahal's thoughts after the test concluded.

GRAHAM:

Yeah, it's great to be here. Um, I love it. You know, I've always loved the mile. I think it's a tremendous challenge. Um, great racetrack, uh, everything that, uh, that they've done to spruce up the pit lane and, uh, fix that mess and, and get, uh, fit boxes looking nice and everything is very much appreciated. It was beautiful. It was awesome today. Um, You know, it was, it was great to be back here turning laps. I think it's a particularly coming off road America. These are two of the best in the country and right here in Wisconsin. So, you know, great, great day. Yeah. It's, it's just, you know, it's a major challenge here. to utilize it because of the fact you're so busy already with all the other things going on that it kind of becomes an afterthought as a driver. I think, you know, until the team says hybrid and hybrid, you know, it's like, Oh, okay. Got to hit it. Got to hit it. But you're so, you know, focused on the driving aspect on a short oval like this. that I think it makes it difficult to maximize the effect of the hybrid. However, like on the simulated restarts that we were doing, when you utilize it, it's a clear boost. And I would also say in traffic, when you get really bogged down, it was nice to be able to pull the deploy and really feel a lot of gain. So that can make racing quite interesting, I think. As challenging as it is to remind, remind yourself of it all the time. I think the net effect is going to be positive. And I think that when you're up in high RPMs and stuff, it's, that's not where it's efficient, right? I mean, it's the same in the street car. Uh, so when you're up doing a qualifying lap and you're pushing hard and you're high in RPMs, the feeling is really not, you know, nominal. Um, but as I said, coming off the corners, the low RPMs, more race running, things like that. Uh, it's, it's, uh, quite a large effect, which is cool. Now you'll get more used to it with time. That's for sure. Um, and even for me today in my car, like they changed basically my entire steering wheel from two days ago to today. to add the buttons and to change things around. So there was a lot in my brain today, as far as the figure out in a short period of time. And so, you know, I think it'll become more second nature. We, we run it obviously here today. I'll run it. I believe I run it in Nashville Friday, then I'll run it again. well, mid Ohio, and then we'll run it at Iowa, I think before middle high. So there's some opportunities to come up, um, in testing, even that will give us a little more experience with it. So, uh, it'll, it'll get better.

BRUCE:

Is this whole thing kind of a Rubik's cube trying to figure out when to use it, when not to use it, when to use it with push to pass, when not to use it with push to pass, or does the handling of the car pretty much determine what you can do with it?

GRAHAM:

Well, and I think it's a little unique here, but this is why I think the teams that got all the hybrid testing flat out, I don't care what they say, it's a huge advantage because there's so much to change to, you know, manual regen, auto regen, how much regen, what's the gain, what's this, what's that? It's like, and it's the opposite of F1 where it's all pre-programmed and the driver kind of just drives. Here, I mean, the driver has to do the majority of that. And so sometimes you can go to auto regen, but then you've got to use the paddle to get extra, you know, extra, um, sock as they're calling it state of charge. You know, there's so many things to go through, but it actually does affect the way the car handles a lot. So you're trying to balance that too, right? It's like, Oh, I think that this is easiest for me on a personal level, but it really didn't work for my car balance. So there's a lot of things that do change. And so, uh, There's a hell of a lot to learn in a very short period of time, unfortunately.

BRUCE:

Well, Brian Barnhart said this morning that one of the things they discovered was how it disrupts the balance of the car when you deploy it. Do you feel that more on deployment or on regen?

GRAHAM:

I feel it on regen more than deploy. I feel like the power delivery of the deploy, and it's the same system for both manufacturers. So I feel like the power delivery of the deploying side is quite good, actually. Indy road course tests, I really liked it. Frankly, I thought it helped my power down. And so I thought that was good today. There was a couple of times in those race runs where you were like in a light traffic and you'd hit it and you could definitely feel the rear, you know, there's clearly more power going through the rear tire. So you've got to be careful. Um, but those are all things we're all going to have to balance over time. How, you know, when do you use it? How much do you use it? Uh, there's a lot of thinking to do in a short period of time.

BRUCE:

There were a couple of drivers this morning that said it doesn't have enough oomph in it. Or do you think that was just a premature comment?

GRAHAM:

No, I mean, I think it'd be nice if it had more. You know, juice for sure, but I think it's it's a start number one, number two. I think it, I think it works quite well. Like I said a second ago, like I think at lower RPMs, you know, when you kind of fall out of the power band, I think you can feel it. Like, I mean, it, it definitely has an effect. So I think it's early days. I think everybody's got to be patient with it too. You know, F1 didn't start with the same power that it delivers today, you know, in their first gen. So let's give this thing some time to develop. I think it's got big potential. As I said, for me today, it was a bit of a zoo, just trying to figure it all out in a very short period of time. I think every driver here, there's just a lot happening and this is a very low grip track. So you're sliding around so much too. It's, you know, not, not the easiest thing to do to remind yourself constantly to, to hit the button. But, um, I think, I think in the end, you know, as it does become second nature and everything else, it'll be fine. I mean, we just got to give it a little bit of time to develop. I don't know. I think there's a lot that is a lot to, to get, to, to figure out in a short period of time. Um, I mean, rain is all another topic, right? How, how it integrates in the rain, how does it affect power down on the rain tire? Um, you know, frankly, it, it may be better. And I know people think I'm nuts, but it may, it may be better. The only downside, I don't know about the Chevy. I don't know if it's standardized, but you know, you pretty much have to be full power, you know, full throttle for it to act. So it's not like it's a, a seamless delivery from, you know, 30% throttle on up. So at least for us. So, uh, you know, that's something that may make, make it complicated, a little more complicated, um, and other conditions. But, um, I think this is going to be important. Because also it's, you know, you have your amount of deploy your allowed per lap, right? And where do you utilize that? How much do you utilize it per straight or do you use it once like here? Do you just use it once into the headwind? Do you use it twice, once in the front, once in the back? Do you use, you know, what's what's the net effect? There's a lot you can do there.

BRUCE:

We'll be right back to Pit Pass Indy after this short break.

JOSEF:

Hey, everyone, this is two time Indy 500 winner Josef Newgarden, and you're listening to Pit Pass Indy presented by Penske Truck Rental.

BRUCE:

Welcome back to Pit Pass Indy. Josef Newgarden wraps up today's show with his thoughts on the test after it took the checkered flag. Let's hear from the back to back Indianapolis 500 winner as he breaks down the test at the Milwaukee Mile.

JOSEF:

Yeah, I mean, I would agree with Graham. I think there's definitely optionality with it. There's a learning curve. There's a strategy to it. How do you utilize it? It's not just a set thing for everybody and it's just there. You can use it a lot of different ways. So there's definitely going to be a learning curve and I think optionality for people to use it differently. Yeah. We've been studying it. It's not like it's getting dropped in our lap right now. That's what I would say. It's not like we're scrambling right now to think about mid-Ohio. We had to go to mid-Ohio tomorrow. It'd be okay. It'd be just fine. So we've been working on it. We have our initial feelings about it and strategy or plan, and that we're going to keep developing that as we get closer to mid Ohio and try and, you know, hit the ground running a little bit better than everybody. I, you know, I, I don't think you're going to find people that are way out to bed with it. I think everyone will be pretty close. You might see some people with maybe a touch of a better advantage with it or maybe a different tactic that's helping them. But I don't think you're going to... You're not going to see anybody light years ahead because they are using it better. It's pretty simplified in a lot of respects. And it's like the push to pass. It's a system that you're going to determine how you want to use it across the lap. And everybody's going to come up with their own method. And I don't think you're going to see people way off on a different planet with it.

WILL:

Josef, if you don't mind, just take a step back. Just your thoughts on being back at the Milwaukee mile today.

JOSEF:

Yeah, it's great to be back. I mean, this is a great track, you know, one of the best that I've been to long time. I mean, I guess 2015 was the last time we were here. So it's really fun to be back. Enjoyed running today and is different than other short ovals like Iowa. There's just no banking to help you. Um, so you had to get used to that and sort of get used to the comfort of not falling into something and trusting that the car is going to hold. Uh, so it can be unnerving running around this place. I think, you know, certainly for some of the guys that were here that had never run here, I bet it took a little while to get used to it, but it's, it's awesome running around Milwaukee. Love this place, love this town. Um, so really, really pumped that we're coming back here. Yeah. I mean, for me, it was a pretty seamless day. It seemed like a easygoing day for most people. The system is... Certainly, from the last time that I ran it, it operates pretty seamlessly. It's just not having a lot of hiccups with it. We've definitely had a lot of miles on it now. It seems to work really well. pretty robust. I think it's impossible to say that we're not going to have any issues. I mean, it's like any new part, you know, regardless of what it is on the car, if there's a new part, there's always going to be some risk of something, you know, still needing to be developed. But up to this point, I think we've seen that the system is fairly robust. Um, so it's ready to drive, uh, I think in a race condition and, um, yeah, I'm, I'm excited to, you know, see this new chapter for the rest of the year. Yeah, it's very different. I mean, with last time we were here in 2015, I think we were, pretty much flat in qualifying. If not just the tiniest lift, were we flat? Well, do you remember where we flat in 2015? It was close. Wasn't it? This is a bonus question here. Yeah. Not flat today. I'm so sorry. gosh, I love him. Right. He is one of my favorite humans in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Um, where were we? No, we were, we were pretty much flat. Just to answer your question. Not flat today. Not even close. Not even close. Um, you know, you're not breaking at all. And in a qual run, you're just like lifting out and back on. Um, and then a race conditions, you're lifting and then a little bit of break towards the end of tire life. So it's, it's a different ballgame. I'd say it's closer to Iowa as far as the way the tires degrade and the way it's going to race. I think that's the closest you could look at.

BRUCE:

So between ride heights, push-to-passes, the hybrid assist, how many different tools are inside the car that you have to figure out how to use while going 200 miles an hour?

JOSEF:

Yeah, it's more now. I mean, you've got, you know, like you said, you have push-to-pass, you have the hybrid unit, you have all the map options, you have your roll bars, you have your weight jackers. I think that's about it. And then your gear selects, obviously, that's not going anywhere. So yeah, there's plenty of options in there. I don't think we need to add any more. We got enough going on. You could add more. I just don't know that we need to at this point. There's definitely enough adjustability to drive the car. So yeah, this will add to it. As we touched on earlier, it's just another strategic thing that everyone will learn how to manage.

BRUCE:

But on an oval, isn't it limited to the handling of your car that you could add, you can't add, go to 1300 horsepower if the car's not going to handle it through the turns. So does that determine when you use it?

JOSEF:

Yeah. I mean, I think it depends on how you set the car up to, you know, you're going to, you're going to set the car up for how you want to utilize it. If it can't take it. you know, then, then you're going to adjust accordingly. Right. Um, and vice versa, maybe you don't want to adjust accordingly and maybe you won't use it that much. So it's, it's going to factor into the way you run a race weekend. For sure. We need more horsepower, more horsepower, hang tight.

BRUCE:

And that puts a checkered flag on this edition of Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental and Hy-Vee. We want to thank our guests from the Hybrid Test at the Milwaukee Mile, including David Maloukas of Meyers Schenck Racing, Christian Lungard of Rahal Letterman Lannigan Racing, Marcus Ericcson of Andretti Global, Will Power of Team Penske, Pat O'Ward of Errol McLaren, Graham Rahal of Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing, and Josef Newgarden of Team Penske for joining us on today's podcast. Along with loyal listeners like you, our guests helping Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental and Hy-Vee, your path to victory lane in IndyCar. On the highways, the raceways, and every pit stop in between, Penske Truck Rental keeps you moving forward. Gain ground with Penske. And for all your shopping needs, be sure to visit your local Hy-Vee, where there's a helpful smile in every aisle. For more IndyCar coverage, follow me at Twitter at BruceMartin, one word, uppercase B, uppercase M, underscore 500. This has been a production of Evergreen Podcast. A special thanks to our production team, executive producers are Bridget Coyne and Gerardo Orlando. Recordings and edits were done by me, Bruce Martin, and final mixing was done by Dave Douglas. Learn more at evergreenpodcast.com. Until next time, be sure to keep it out of the wall.