IndyCar Series Team Owner Bobby Rahal, Team Penske President Tim Cindric, NASCAR drivers Tyler Reddick and Denny Hamlin and NASCAR team owner Joe Gibbs

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Bruce Martin:

IndyCar fans, it's time to start your engines. Welcome to Pit Pass Indy, a production of Evergreen Podcasts. I'm your host Bruce Martin, a journalist who regularly covers the NTT IndyCar Series. Our goal at Pit Pass Indy is to give racing fans an insider's view of the exciting world of the NTT IndyCar Series in a fast-paced podcast featuring interviews with the biggest names in the sport.

I bring nearly 40 years of experience covering IndyCar and NASCAR, working for such media brands as nbcsports.com, si.com, ESPN SportsTicker, Sports Illustrated, Autoweek and Speed Sport. So, let's drop the green flag on this episode of Pit Pass Indy.

Welcome to Pit Pass Indy as we continue our fourth season of giving IndyCar fans a behind the scenes look at the NTT IndyCar Series and the drivers in the teams that compete in the Indianapolis 500.

It was another week of major news off the track in IndyCar, especially at Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing. Team owners, Bobby Rahal, David Letterman, and Michael Lanigan hired 2024 INDY NXT five Firestone champion Louis Foster.

But a few days later, Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing announced that longtime sponsor Hy-Vee was scaling back on its sponsorship of the IndyCar team by dropping its support of the No. 45 Honda at Rahal Letterman Lanigan. Also, Hy-Vee will no longer be the sponsor of the IndyCar Series race at the Milwaukee Mile.

Hy-Vee will continue its support of the Hy-Vee IndyCar race weekend at Iowa Speedway in July. Here is my exclusive interview with Bobby Rahal, the 1986 Indianapolis 500 winning driver, two-time Indy 500 winning team owner with Buddy Rice in 2004 in Takuma Sato in 2020 and three-time CART champion as he talks about signing Foster and losing Hy-Vee.

Joining us now is Bobby Rahal, the co-owner of Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing. Bobby, you've had some big news this week. One is a new driver, but the other is the departure of a great sponsor with Hy-Vee. So, how do you assess everything that's happened this weekend? It's been a pretty big week for you. Some good news and maybe some news that isn't so good.

Bobby Rahal:

Well, I guess I would first say that's kind of racing, isn't it? Obviously, we're very happy to be able to sign Louis. We feel very strongly about his potential and he's a proven winner, and I don't see that that's going to change in this next step of his. So, we're very pleased to have him.

And of course, we're very disappointed that Hy-Vee decided not to continue sponsoring our racing car. We had a great, what, four and a half years with Hy-Vee, great company, great people, we're sad to lose them.

They were a great sponsor for us, but they are even more importantly a great sponsor for IndyCar racing and as I said, it's kind of life. I mean, you do everything you can to continue with your sponsors and you hope that they respond and continue with you but there was a change in the executive ranks at Hy-Vee.

And like any company, when that happens oftentimes you see that company take different direction and I think it's great that they're staying with the race in Iowa because that's a big race for everybody.

And life goes on and we're talking to a number of companies to take the place of Hy-Vee and we're just going to put our heads down and try to make things happen.

Bruce Martin:

You brought up a real good point about the change in leadership structure. As long as you've been in racing, I've been in racing, we've seen situations where a CEO or a chief marketing officer loves racing, and he invests the company into the race program.

But as soon as that person moves on, a new person may come in, have their own ideas, their own budgets, and decide, “Why are we investing this much money in racing when we can invest it over here?” Do you believe that this is a perfect example of that?

Bobby Rahal:

Well, I think that certainly a new CEO coming into a company has his own vision and the thing about Hy-Vee is the executives have spent their whole lives at Hy-Vee. So, they've been through changes before, they know what they think is right and I think this is a classic case of the new CEO came in and he has just a different view on things, a big supporter of racing.

I mean, they're not getting out of the racing business, as far as the racetrack is concerned but has a feel or a commitment or has thoughts about the best way for them to improve their business and so you're going to get those changes and certainly, we were a victim of that.

It's not the first time that's happened, and I'm sure it's not going to be the last time it's happened. It is what it is, and you just have to, as I say, put your head down and work hard to find someone else to take on the role as a primary over the course of the year.

Bruce Martin:

One of the most impressive things about Hy-Vee was they were able to build a season long activation around your team. They would feature the No. 45 Hy-Vee Honda in displays in all of their stores from the end of February until the middle of September when the season came to an end.

Next year, the season will come to an end earlier because of the FOX Sports contract and having IndyCar be over on Labor Day weekend. But in some ways, if it's going to be focusing on the race in July, perhaps some of that activation isn't as big as it was as a full season effort with your team. So, in some ways, does the series lose from that?

Bobby Rahal:

Well, I think first off, I mean, Hy-Vee has sporting relationships with obviously the NFL teams, Minnesota, Minneapolis, Minnesota Vikings, of course, and the Kansas City Chiefs and others I think they're involved with the Green Bay Packers and then of course, college sports and any of all types, not just football, but swimming and various other sports within the NCAA community.

So, I mean, they have a lot of sporting relationships and frankly, I think that the fact that IndyCar racing's stopping now on Labor Day, that's the case because it's a reaction to the loss of ratings and what have you once you get into football season.

And so, in some respects, that might have been a good move for us vis-a-vis Hy-Vee just because they're already sponsoring events that really are heavily involved with in the third and fourth quarter of the year.

I mean, I think it's a shame for IndyCar to lose a company like Hy-Vee on a regular basis, on a race-by-race basis with us. But like I said, that's just life. I mean, it's disappointing, but it is what it is.

Bruce Martin:

But as you look back, going all the way to their first involvement in the second race of a double header during the COVID season of 2020, when spectator attendance was self-imposed a limitation because of the pandemic.

Your crew rewrapped the car overnight to put this new company's logo on the car, Hy-Vee and it seemed to be magic from that race on forward. The company fell in love with IndyCar, IndyCar fell in love with the company and you look back over all those years since then, you got to really believe it was a magic ride.

Bobby Rahal:

Oh my God, when we started as you say, the first race, Graham was on the podium, had a good race, a really good race that night. Then Randy Edeker, who was the CEO at the time, it was very proactive, “Hey, we'd like maybe to do this race, and how about that race?” And next thing you know it's, “Well, let's do this race and that race.”

And it grew and grew pretty rapidly and that's an exciting time for any racing team to have a relationship with a company as we do with Hy-Vee and so it's a shame. We're going to miss them all, and we wish them the best and obviously we're going to see them in Iowa next July. And I think we built a lot of relationships with a lot of great people at Hy-Vee.

Hy-Vee's a company of about 84,000 employees, they're all part owners of the company, great people. So, I think in the end, we feel very fortunate to have known them and to have worked with them and been part of this amazing journey that they set out on in IndyCar racing.

And yeah, we're still going to do everything we can to have an involvement with them in the years to come because of the relationships we build. So, things change and here we are, now we just got to make the best of it.

Bruce Martin:

And it can't be undersold the value of the fact that your team, Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds, Roger Penske, Hy-Vee saved Iowa Speedway because in 2021 there wasn't any racing going on out there. It was Hy-Vee that saved it for a big return in 2022. And ever since then, in many ways, I consider that to be the biggest racing weekend of the summer months on the IndyCar schedule.

Bobby Rahal:

Well, I mean, Randy Edeker and the company felt very strongly about resurrecting the Iowa race. The Iowa race was a big deal for the state of Iowa and when it was gone, it was quiet as a result of that.

And the governor did speak with Randy and asked him what could be done to resurrect the race and Randy stood up and did a great job and made a huge commitment. I mean, let's face it the musical acts there were just out of this world.

And just the way the circuit was presented over the years, the last several years I mean, it looked like a Formula 1 race almost in the sense, the tents and the suites and the this and that. So, I mean, I always say, I think every promoter should look at Iowa and learn from what they did, because they didn't leave any stone unturned in terms of trying to promote that race and I think the crowd got better and better over those years but it was really an honor to be a part of that, that whole process.

We did very little really, other than introduce Hy-Vee to the Penske Group and get them together. But yeah, thankfully they're remaining as a series sponsor, and they're remaining as the sponsor of the Iowa Race and you never know what's going to happen, a year from now maybe, minds change or maybe who knows what might happen, and they're back where they were, so we'll see.

Bruce Martin:

So, you sound confident you'll be able to get some interested sponsors lined up with your team. I know that during the Hy-Vee IndyCar race weekend at Iowa Speedway, they always said they had about 104 corporate partners and vendors that were part of that weekend. Are any of those people available for you to maybe make a sponsorship pitch, or have they contacted you?

Bobby Rahal:

Not that I'm aware of. I mean, that was really like the target model when Chip Ganassi had target, all the vendors, it was really a vendor to target relationship just as this was a vendor to a Hy-Vee. So, it's all about, it's B2B, it's leveraging relationships, managing relationships.

And so, yeah, I mean, at this stage that I'm aware of we've not heard from anybody that would've originated from this relationship but we did meet a lot of great people and we're always out there knocking on doors.

Bruce Martin:

Do you have anybody answering the door at the moment that you'll be able to put together in time for maybe the beginning of the season?

Bobby Rahal:

Well, yeah, not Hy-Vee, but we have racing sponsors that we will be announcing here in the near future and I think that and frankly one of them is quite exciting. So, we're not there yet with them, but we're working hard at it.

And we will have, that car will be sponsored. It may not have a single sponsor as we've had in the past several years with the 45 car, but in the end nowadays it's all about, there's more ways than one to skin a cat. And if you look at NASCAR, most of the teams are, I mean, I'm not even sure if anybody's got a season long, consistent primary sponsor.

Maybe Rick Hendrick got a couple cars, but nevertheless, the world of racing from a marketing standpoint has been one of change, weekend to weekend, and you just have to deal with that and be good at it. And in the end, it's all satisfying the budget. There's just probably a little more work to do in order to satisfy that budget.

Bruce Martin:

Now, last question on Hy-Vee, before we start talking about Louis Foster, how long have you known that this is probably going to be the decision?

Bobby Rahal:

We've known probably I would say, a month or two, we had discussions and oh, it was after July. It's almost August, really and we had frank discussions with them, and there were regret reticent, I would say.

They really liked the program, but they also had to attack with their marketing budget in a different way and it's totally understandable. It's just it's a shame, but it's totally understandable and you can't argue with that and they know they have a vision for how the company should go forward and unfortunately, it just didn't include us.

Bruce Martin:

We'll be right back to Pit Pass Indy after this short break.

Will Power:

This is Will Power of Team Penske, and you are listening to Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental.

Bruce Martin:

Welcome back to Pit Pass Indy. Here's the second part of my exclusive interview with Indy Car Series team owner, Bobby Rahal of Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing for Pit Pass Indy.

So, now let's go to a more positive subject, Louis Foster, the 2024 INDY NXT Series champion and ever since he's arrived over here as part of the IndyCar Ladder System, this guy's had a swagger to him that you can just sense his confidence level is very high that he knows he's a professional race driver. What was it about him that made you decide he'd be a great fit for Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing?

Bobby Rahal:

Well, I mean, I'd know he'd won some racings, I'd watched some of them earlier in the year and even last year but we met on a couple of occasions. I just was really impressed with him as a young man, humble. I had acquaintances that he had done work with, and they just told me that guy's got a great work ethic and he’s committed and everything else.

And then of course, the ontrack story was very successful and obviously he had the speed. And as I think I said, maybe yesterday or the other day when we introduced him, he’s one of those guys said that he makes mistakes, they're small ones and they can be overcome, but you don't really see him making big mistakes.

And that's in the crucible of a fight. I mean, that's on the star of a race or whatever. I think, he’s got it in control all the time and I think he's very smart in how he approaches his racing. So, that's the kind of guy you're looking for and I really do believe he is very much the future of RLL.

Bruce Martin:

You're a driver or a former driver who always believed in developing drivers, and that is what the IndyCar Ladder System is set up to be, is to develop drivers. So, how much of a, I don't want to say it's a responsibility, but how important is it for not only your team, but also other teams in IndyCar to really give the IndyCar, the INDY NXT Series champion an opportunity in IndyCar so that that whole program can be viable?

Bobby Rahal:

Well, I think first off, the INDY NXT cars are a very good preparation for IndyCar itself. I mean, I think we've seen that with Rasmussen and Lundqvist and others, Kyle Kirkwood, that these guys get out of a INDY NXT car and get into an IndyCar and it's almost like no big deal. So, it’s a great training ground.

it's great because they're also racing on a lot of the circuits, and IndyCar is, so it's not a matter of having to learn new circuits or what have you. And I think that's valuable because you're really looking for people who kind of know where everything goes and are comfortable on ovals and what have you.

So, I just felt that he, just as the nature of him, how he just handled himself, how he drove wasn't always easy, but he still won, he figured out a way to win. I mean, that's all-good stuff, and that's kind of things you're looking for in a guy to make the next step. So, as I said, I think he's got a long future ahead and we certainly aim to make that future with us.

Bruce Martin:

So, Graham will be back in the 15 car. We don't know the car number yet for Louis Foster. You also have a third car right now piloted by Pietro Fittipaldi. How far away are you from making a decision on that particular ride, whether it's Pietro or whether it may be somebody different like a Juri Vips or a veteran driver like Rinus VeeKay?

Bobby Rahal:

We're probably, I'd say a month away. Again, we're looking for sponsorship day and night, got some good leads but honestly, I think we're looking end of October probably somewhere in that vicinity before we know exactly who might be in that car. There's a number of options but we just want to make sure that we do this right.

And right now, I think with Graham and with Louis, we got two really strong drivers, and we got one guy with a lot of experience that can teach Louis and then we got Louis who is going to be like a sponge and just learn everything he can. But the third car, we're talking to a number of different people and also talking to some outside sponsors and hoping to tie some of that down sooner rather than later.

Bruce Martin:

Are there some other names other than the ones that I mentioned? Because you always seem to be pretty well plugged into the GP2 market of drivers, or the GP3 market of drivers that I haven't mentioned. So, I imagine your list is a lot longer than the three or four drivers that I named.

Bobby Rahal:

Well, I mean, obviously I'm a big fan of Juri. He’s been with us for now for two years and he’s a good young man, a really good young man and a very good driver and I really would like to see him in the car. Again, sponsorship is critical to that, as it is with anyone.

But it's the usual, there's other guys in INDY NXT that could be good bets for the future and there's a couple, and we tested Zane Maloney out of GP2. He's now gone to Formula E but GP2 looks at IndyCar in a lot of respects as the next step because there's nothing available in Formula 1 for these guys.

And the success of Pato and Christian and others that came from GP2, from Formula 2 is that's giving people in Europe and around the world a lot of reason or to really consider IndyCar as the next step. And you talk to these young guys and there's a lot of frustration because they're beating guys that are getting into Formula 1.

And so, it's like, “Well, how are they getting into Formula 1 and yet they're getting beaten all the time?” And so, it's the politics, it's the relationships, it's what have you that makes a difference. And so, a lot of these guys are looking into IndyCar to really build a career.

Bruce Martin:

So, back to Louis Foster, here's a guy that has grown up in racing. When you hear his background, his father was heavily involved in racing over in England and you grew up in racing, your father was involved in racing, your son is involved in racing, how much of being a really good race driver or making it your whole life, do you feel comes from a background like that?

Bobby Rahal:

Well, for sure if you're a young man and you grow up in racing, watching your father or what have you, you certainly know what the expectation is. And what I mean by that is not the expectation to win, but the expectation of the work it takes and the expectation of that this just doesn't come easily. That it can be a long flog, as they say, to get to the top.

It really, I think, matures you and being involved in a family that races, I think there's no real surprises for you because you know what they already are. And I do think that, and oftentimes why you see so many young people racing whose parents, mother or father raced as well, why that happens? I think it's because they get it, they understand it, and they know how hard it is.

And so, yeah, being the son in this case of a ex-driver as Graham was for me I think that's kind of an advantage or certainly kind of a … I mean, these kids come in, they can't, Alonso Junior when he came in, or Michael Andretti when he came in, they knew what the expectation was and I think that's an advantage to know that.

Bruce Martin:

A lot of times you'll get a young driver from the INDY NXT Series, he'll step up to IndyCar and he'll be pretty wide-eyed and, in some ways, maybe even a little bit intimidated. But when you look at Louis Foster, he comes across as being in control and composed. So, how much of a step ahead of the game do you think he has by having that type of temperament?

Bobby Rahal:

Well, the fact that he did an evaluation test last year, I believe, he's going to test for us on November 19th out west. With all the testing that's available to not just an INDY NXT champion, but a rookie and everything else, he's going to have a lot of time in a car. And I think, to me, if you're a good driver, you can acclimate yourself to whatever it is you get into pretty quickly.

I always tell people the time when we went to Italy with Graham to a form of 3000 tests, and he'd never driven anything with more than like 220 horsepower and he goes there and it's got 550 horsepower and literally within, I don't know, 20 laps, he goes under the lap record.

And a good driver can acclimate, as I said, can feel comfortable, can handle it very quickly and I have no doubt that Louis will be the same in this situation. So, we're pretty positive about that kind of graduation that he's going to have to IndyCar.

Bruce Martin:

One of the big stories that happened as soon as the season came to an end was the announcement of the IndyCar charter system, you have three of them. From a team owner standpoint, how valuable is it to have the charter system in place?

Bobby Rahal:

Well, I think it's valuable because it gives the teams value. Prior to this, anybody could go racing for the same thing. So, you might have had 20 years in the business, or 30 years, you know for me, since 1991, so we're talking about 33 years and really the value of the team was limited to the value of the assets you had, the trucks, trailers, cars, whatever.

And of course, it was depreciated every year. So, your value, there wasn't a lot of value and anybody could come in and they didn't have to, there was no toll, so to speak to get in. You look at the NFL or Major League Baseball or basketball, the only way you can get in is to buy your way in by buying an existing team and that's what gives the teams value.

I don't know how much a baseball team makes today on an annualized basis, but I know how much they make when they sell a franchise after X number of years or whatever and it's a lot of money. And so, the basis is not in the day-to-day revenue that's coming in, it's in the long-term value that's created.

And so, finally for us, for those of us in IndyCar teams, we've got now an avenue to raise the value of the organizations we own. And that's big because we put a lot of money, we invest a lot, everybody does in IndyCar, as they do in NASCAR into their teams and this is one way to get that return on investment.

Bruce Martin:

Well, you've even had to close your IndyCar team of certain seasons back around 2011, 2012, I believe you only ran the Indianapolis 500. You were a full-time participant before that, you had to scale back, kind of reorganize before slowly returning to a major effort like you are today.

So, in a lot of ways like that, that makes a great point about with the charter system, you just can't be put out of business by somebody else who comes in and says, “Hey, I want to be an IndyCar team owner.” They have to make certain decisions too; certain things have to come into play in order for them to get the same benefits that a full-timer gets.

Bobby Rahal:

Yeah, that's right.

Bruce Martin:

You mentioned Major League Baseball, the Minnesota Twins are apparently up for sale. In 1984, Carl Pohlad bought the Twins for 44 million, the team today is estimated to be worth $1.5 billion. So, I think you would say that's a pretty good return on investment.

Bobby Rahal:

That's a damn good return on investment. And also, that's a reflection of the job that Major League Baseball has done as a sanction organization to create value. It's not just the team, it’s where the teams, and you look at NFL, I mean, NFL's a machine, and it's all about the value of the series and which creates the value in the teams, especially the ones who are successful.

But even when the teams that aren't successful are worth a billion dollars or so maybe more. And what's Dallas Cowboys worth? What's Chicago Bears worth? Pittsburgh, what's that worth? These are strong towns with a great history in football, and their values are probably the highest in the NFL or some of the highest in the NFL at least and it's just because of the communities that they're in, and the historic success of the teams and the historic success of the NFL, which has probably never been better.

Bruce Martin:

Speaking of the Dallas Cowboys, earlier last week it was announced an IndyCar Series street race, the Grand Prix of Arlington, which in the ownership group are the Dallas Cowboys and the Texas Rangers along with IndyCar to be able to get the marketing power of the Dallas Cowboys and the Texas Rangers involved in an IndyCar race. How important is that?

Bobby Rahal:

I think this race is maybe the big — after the Indy 500 or maybe Long Beach Grand Prix is the biggest thing that's ever happened to IndyCar, or maybe I should say after Fox TV too because that's huge. No, I think that this is a, I mean, it's a proper circuit.

I guess the people who designed the circuit are those who did the Miami Formula 1 race. The pictures I've seen that the rendering's, very dramatic looking racetrack, fast, proper, really a proper race track and that's some track that's every corner's 90 degrees, and it's on rough concrete and whatever and I think that race is going to be huge. I really, really do.

And of course, being associated with Jerry Jones and by extension all the relationships he has, I know because I was with Miller Brewing Company at the time, and we're talking, 1992 is when the relationship between Miller Brewing Company and Jerry Jones was created by Dick Strup who was the head of marketing for Miller and that relationship continues to this day and is hugely important for Miller.

And so, I just think, and this is really a hell of an achievement by IndyCar, by Rogers and his group and Mark Miles, Jay Frye, I mean this is big, and that's all you can say is it's big. And I don't think there's anybody who's not excited to get down there and get going. I know we got a year to go but boy, just by all accounts and by listening to people, it's going to be a hell of a deal.

Bruce Martin:

And say what you want about Jerry Jones, owner of the Dallas Cowboys, but when it comes to marketing, that guy knows how to market.

Bobby Rahal:

No question about it, and you're in Texas, right?

Bruce Martin:

Yes.

Bobby Rahal:

And you're going to have a race where there's going to be a hundred thousand people there. What is Dallas? I think it's the fourth largest market, I think, or something like that.

Bruce Martin:

Fourth or fifth largest market, Dallas-Fort Worth.

Bobby Rahal:

I mean, the association with Jerry Jones and the Rangers is just going to do just nothing but huge things. So, that place is going to be packed. And for me, the frustration with the Texas Speedway was always that here you got the best racing in the world.

I mean, you had how many finishes were like the margin of victory was like a 10th of a second or something and yet there was nobody in the grandstand. I mean, you had maybe 10,000 people. That was frustrating because it's like, here's this great series with great race and nobody's there.

And yet, I think in this case with Arlington you're going to have great racing, but equally you're going to have a huge crowd and I think that's what IndyCar really needs our events like this.

Bruce Martin:

Well, the other important thing about having them as partners is you have access to their ticket database from direct to marketing. So, the Dallas Cowboys draw huge crowds every home game to tap into that ticket database has to be extremely valuable for IndyCar especially to get them involved in this race.

Bobby Rahal:

Well, I would think so. I mean, that would seem to make sense. I would put it this way that Jerry Jones is a winner, Roger Penske's a winner. I have a lot of confidence that those two guys are going to ensure that this event is a winner. I really do. And look at the work that … you look at Long Beach, initially, it's Chris Pook now later on others.

Bruce Martin:

Jim Michaelian.

Bobby Rahal:

Jim Michaelian, look what he's doing, and the head created this event, which is like an event for all time and this is Long Beach and I think the Texas Arlington it’s going be the same thing. I mean, this is huge. And so, anybody who loves IndyCar racing has got to be thrilled that this event's going to happen because this is big. It's big.

Bruce Martin:

Well, Bobby Rahal, I know that you've got a lot going on today. You're at Petit Le Mans your sports car program, it's their last race of the season but want to thank you for talking about all the topics we covered today.

Hy-Vee's a great asset to IndyCar, hopefully they will be able to stay in some capacity, especially with the Iowa race and also congratulations on hiring Louis Foster. Thank you for joining us today on Pit Pass Indy.

Bobby Rahal:

Hey, well, my pleasure. Always good speaking with you and look forward to the next time.

Bruce Martin:

We'll be right back to Pit Pass Indy after this short break.

Josef Newgarden:

Hey everyone, this is two-time Indy 500 winner Josef Newgarden, and you're listening to Pit Pass Indy presented by Penske Truck Rental.

Bruce Martin:

Welcome back to Pit Pass Indy. Team Penske achieved an impressive season championship on Saturday, October 12th at Road Atlanta in the Petit Le Mans as Porsche Penske Motorsport claimed the 2024 IMSA WeatherTech Sportscar Championship.

The roots of Team Penske run deep in sports car racing, and team owner Roger Penske's impressive list of career accomplishments now includes a sports car title with Porsche. Pit Pass Indy caught up with Team Penske, President Tim Cindric at Charlotte Motor Speedway on October 13th, prior to the NASCAR Cup Series, Bank of America ROVAL 400 the morning after Cindric helped celebrate the IMSA Championship at Road Atlanta.

Here's my exclusive interview with Cindric for Pit Pass Indy.

Joining us now on Pit Pass Indy is Team Penske, President Tim Cindric. Tim, congratulations on winning the IMSA Championship with the Porsche Motorsport effort. As you said to me earlier, now you've checked off another box, how big of a title is that for the team Penske?

Tim Cindric:

When I look at it, this global program that we put together with Porsche, it got off to a rough start, we had a lot going on last year to where we didn't certainly reach our potential and for the group and the drivers to execute in the way they have this year is, it's amazing, honestly.

Obviously, we've done a lot of sports car racing, but I don't think we've checked as many boxes as we did this year at IMSA at once. Obviously, starting the season out, winning the Rolex 24, and then ended up first and second in that championship and being able to clinch the endurance thing yesterday is just the only thing that would've made it better is to win that race.

Bruce Martin:

The roots of Penske racing are in sports cars. A lot of people may think of Penske racing as the dominant IndyCar program, Indianapolis 500 winning team that it is, but deep down the roots of that program was Roger Penske driving sports cars. So, how near and dear is this championship to Roger's heart?

Tim Cindric:

Well, Roger's put his heart and soul into this whole Porsche program from the very beginning. I mean, obviously on the business side, there's a huge relationship there with the Porsche dealerships and so forth.

But the history that Rogers had where he reached the RSK back in the 50s and 60s, and then to go forward and have the 9, 17, 10 and the 9, 17, 30 in the early 70s in Can-Am move forward with the RS Fighter program and this was a whole nother chapter in the program that really Penske and Porsche created way back in the late 50s.

Bruce Martin:

As the owner of IndyCar of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, Roger has to step back from the overall operations at Team Penske. So, when he shows up at a NASCAR racer or he shows up at an IMSA race and he gets to climb back up on top of the timing stand. How much does he really love that aspect of it? Because he doesn't have to play favorites, he's out there to make sure team Penske wins.

Tim Cindric:

Yeah, it's interesting because it reminds me of the days when I came to Penske, relative to his involvement in IndyCar team and how detailed he was and how close he was to each one of the people there and he could tell you basically everybody's role, everybody's job.

And even I remember a couple weeks ago we were racing somewhere, and the WC team was in Fuji, and he actually sat there and watched timing and scoring for the entire event, just lap by lap. He's so ingrained in that, and like you said, it's really where his racing started.

So, a lot of people view him as an IndyCar owner, a NASCAR owner, but at the end of the day, the sports car program, like you say, is the roots of where it all started and just the history that's there and the generations of people that he's known within the Porsche program, it's fun to go to ISOC with him and him tell you the stories of how it used to be there relative to how it is now.

Bruce Martin:

The sports car program at Porsche is also involved with World Endurance Championship and how do things look in that series in terms of competitiveness with Porsche, how well you guys are on a global stage?

Tim Cindric:

One race remaining in that series, and we're leading the championship there as well. So, the last event is in Bahrain, actually the Martinsville weekend, so the first weekend in November. So, if we can have a solid day there, we could win both championships on a global scale, which would be really something that hasn't been done before.

Bruce Martin:

You're as close to Roger Penske as anybody, when you see him at a sports car race or at a NASCAR race, do you see the fun return in him? Like I said to you earlier, he doesn't have to play favorites, here he's a team owner that can go out there and beat the other guy and that's really what Team Penske's all about.

Tim Cindric:

Well, I've always said it, it's his golf game, he doesn't have hobbies, he doesn't have a lot going on aside from trying to keep his empire in place but this is his getaway. This is really his passion and something that has driven him every day is the competitiveness that we have every weekend. So, it's our job to put the numbers on the board and it was fun to be able to give him something that he can't get otherwise.

Bruce Martin:

And also, as far as the businessman, he played a key role in combining forces with IndyCar, Penske Entertainment, the Dallas Cowboys, the Texas Rangers for the Grand Prix of Arlington. And when you think about the collective marketing power involved with everybody involved for that race, it has the potential to be a really huge event for IndyCar.

Tim Cindric:

Oh yeah. It'll be a Marques event for sure. I was actually talking to Greg Penske on my way here this morning, and he's obviously looking at the details and he's been a really, really big part of making that happen with the people and the relationships that he has.

And very exciting to see it coming onto a stage like that and have the involvement in with the NFL and with the Rangers and the Cowboys, I think it puts a lot of credibility to the series.

Bruce Martin:

Now as we do this interview, it's before the Bank of America ROVAL 400 cutoff race in NASCAR's playoff. Two of your drivers are at the moment on the outside looking in, including your son Austin, and also Joey Logano. So, how nervous of a day is this for you as the lead member of Team Penske?

Tim Cindric:

I mean, I think the nerves went away a long time ago. It's really just a matter of hoping the team can execute and put it all together today. Kind of got three different scenarios happening where obviously Austin is pretty much in a must win situation after Talladega, Joey in Talladega step him back a bit as well.

But I think with a solid top 10 run from Joey, and I think Ryan just needs to have a top 20 type of day and we'll move on. So, hopefully we can get out of here with at least two of these guys in the final eight.

Bruce Martin:

Over at IndyCar, Will Power finished fourth in the championship, Scott McLaughlin third but I know that you're not really interested in thirds and fourths, you're interested in championships. So, what do you see, how prepared are you at the moment getting ready for the 2025 season so that you're able to celebrate a championship in IndyCar next year?

Tim Cindric:

Well, we were this week in Indy testing there at the open test with Josef, so we're already off and running with getting acclimated to the hybrid at Indianapolis and the things that we need to do to continue to hit our marks.

Our number one goal every year is to win the Indy 500 and the championships all, are a big part of what we try and do and certainly important, but the focus for our group has always been on Indy. And then the championship is something that we felt like let get away this year when we look at the competitiveness of our cars. But certainly, the Ganassi team did a great job and capitalized on the year.

Bruce Martin:

Team Penske did win the Indianapolis 500 for the second year in a row. Josef Newgarden the first back-to-back winner since Helio Castroneves in 2001, 2002, you were part of that back-to-back also. But anytime you're able to win back-to-back Indy five hundreds, anytime you're able to win in Indy 500, you have to say it was a pretty good year.

Tim Cindric:

Oh yeah, without a doubt. Everything else is a bonus after that. Certainly, want to win the championship, don't get me wrong. So, as we look at next year going in with Josef trying to threepeat, which has never been done there before, it's something that we certainly … I remember being there after the last pit stop and Elio being in a position to go three for three there until he got checked up there and de Ferran took that, so it's another opportunity, put it that way.

Bruce Martin:

Team Penske, President Tim Cindric, congratulations on Porsche Penske Motorsport winning the 2024 IMSA Championship. Good luck next season in IndyCar and good luck this year in NASCAR. Thank you for joining us on Pit Pass Indy.

Tim Cindric:

Thanks Bruce, appreciate it.

Bruce Martin:

As we mentioned earlier, Pit Pass Indy switched gears over the weekend with a trip to the Charlotte Motor Speedway for the Bank of America ROVAL 400 NASCAR Cup Series race. It was an elimination race in the 2024 NASCAR Cup Series playoffs and there was plenty of drama involved, including regular season champion Tyler Reddick of 23XI, involved in a lap 30 crash that have put him in serious danger of elimination from advancing into NASCAR's round of eight.

Reddick who drives for the 23XI team owned by basketball legend Michael Jordan and fellow racer Denny Hamlin overcame adversity by making up 26 positions on the racetrack and was the last driver to advance to the next round of the playoffs by what he did on the track.

At the time, Reddick was one point above the cut line and Team Penske's Joey Logano was one point below the cut line to advance into the round of eight, but that all changed three hours later when another driver that advanced Hendrick Motorsports driver Alex Bowman was disqualified by NASCAR after his number 48 Chevrolet failed post-race technical inspection. It did not meet the minimum weight requirement.

Here are some quick thoughts from Tyler Reddick on his dramatic drive to advance a few minutes after the race ended at Charlotte Motor Speedway. First up is Reddick describing what happened in the big crash in turn seven on lap 30 that nearly cost him a shot at continuing in the playoffs.

Tyler Reddick:

Eyes open up if you are right, I can see the apex of the corner, the three spun around and everybody's on the brake stopping and you're expecting everyone to take that corner, somewhat normal. But yeah, as soon as I could see what was happening ahead, everyone was trying to hit the brakes and stop and avoid a spin, so wrong place at the wrong time for us.

Oh, I think my neck is a little bit probably from flying through the sky, but it's okay. I mean, it can all seem really complex from the outside looking in but it's pretty simple for me. I just asked how many cars I need to pass, where I was to the cut line and I just focused on running the best lap possible and trying to be aggressive and in timing the passes, I know if I could get within a car length, somebody in the hairpin, I could get to the inside and put us both in a bad spot.

And I mean, I'm understanding that at one point we passed enough cars, we had plenty of time to get the last couple and then the 20 … started losing some spots, so it was coming to us there.

But there was a moment where there was a bunch of us kind of stacked together and it's like, “Alright, if I finish in here, I can get them all pretty quickly and maybe run down the next group.” And it didn't quite go perfectly, but I mean, we made passes, we avoided the calamity and got through it.

Bruce Martin:

How do you not to panic in a situation like that?

Tyler Reddick:

Well, I wish I could tell you, but I mean, I just know it's not the right thing to do. I know that I got to focus on what I can control and I just got to drive my car as fast as possible. Whatever I've got, I've got to maximize.

And certainly, for a while in that race that was running 28 to 27 or 82-7s, 82-8s, that's about all I had. They did a really good job of getting it really close. Drove totally different but it had the pace there at the end.

Bruce Martin:

Next up, Reddick explains a late race incident in turn seven where he lost control of his rear wheels and hit fellow racer Daniel Hemric unintentionally spinning him out.

Tyler Reddick:

I mean, it's tough. I needed to go and we raced through there pretty tight. I was trying to stay online and he was trying to run close to me and yeah, I went down into first and wheel hopped a little bit, back kicked out and I spun him out. So, it's just what happens. I had to go, I had to race, I had to make the pass, so you never want that to happen, but I had to pass. I had to pass cars, I had to go.

Bruce Martin:

But from a driver's standpoint, you knew you had to make up as many spots as possible. Were those fun moments or were those really anxious moments for you?

Tyler Reddick:

It's fun. These are moments you live for. The part that's not fun is when as you were talking about 31 that's not exactly the plan of getting back to the front is getting together with fellow drivers are people you care about.

But it's racing, it's cutoff race, you got to make aggressive moves and you got to go for it. We had to get those spots. So, I tried to do it as cleanly as possible and fortunately yeah, me and the 31 came together.

Bruce Martin:

How bad were the tires?

Tyler Reddick:

Yeah, it was definitely a mistake. It doesn't change the fact that it happened. It did, but we had to pass some cars. So, I'll talk to him about it. I don't get back the day he was having but racing me like this.

Bruce Martin:

Were you aware of the cars that were passing Joey that was making your … and what was going through your mind at that point? Because I believe though, one very important one was when A.J. Allmendinger got by him, it got you to two points that you needed.

Tyler Reddick:

Yeah, we were closing in and we knew he was kind of falling off. So, we knew we had time, but I mean, I've seen it so many times with this car where you think you have time, and your tires kind of equalized to the cars you're racing around and then you can't pass them.

So, you want to be patient, but I've definitely been in a spot, not here but other places where way too long and then you're kind of just stuck. So, if you got an advantage, you got to take advantage of it.

Bruce Martin:

This is a big moment for you. What does it do for the 23XI brand?

Tyler Reddick:

Oh man. Yeah, we did it last year. I don’t know if we caught people off guard or not, but we got it in last year and this year obviously I think it was expected of us. At times it wasn't looking good but it's good to be back for the second year in a row.

Bruce Martin:

Thank you. Another driver that advanced another round of eight is Denny Hamlin of Joe Gibbs Racing. I caught up with the NASCAR great to talk about his role of owning one team, driving for another and both cars making the next round of the NASCAR Cup Series playoffs.

Happy team owner.

Denny Hamlin:

Happy driver. Driver first. Yeah, I mean certainly still got two shots at it and so I feel I got a 20% chance at a championship, so just got to keep increasing the odds by running well.

Bruce Martin:

You were running him pretty hard there toward the end, I guess. So, you were going to make him earn it?

Denny Hamlin:

Yeah, I mean, just didn't want to bleed any more spots just in case the caution comes out. Chris was keeping me abreast of the situation saying, “We can afford this one, we can afford this one, but we just can't have a restart and then bleed off 10 spots.” We've been on bad spots, so we did all we could and obviously it was good enough.

Bruce Martin:

We wrap up today's Pit Pass Indy with a quick interview from a man who knows how to win championships in NASCAR and in the National Football League. It's Joe Gibbs who coached the then Washington Redskins sensory named Washington Commanders to three Super Bowl titles in his career before he switched gears to become a championship winning team owner in NASCAR.

Here is my exclusive interview with Joe Gibbs from Pit Lane at Charlotte Motor Speedway for Pit Pass Indy.

Coach Joe Gibbs round of eight, it's almost like the NFL playoffs back with the Redskins. What's it like though to survive a day like this? Because a lot of times these elimination races really are survival.

Joe Gibbs:

Honestly, that's about three hours of trying to hold your breath. Honestly, I was sweating it every lap. We got some damage early with Denny and so you're sitting there and knowing that everything that can happen to you, we lost the transmission with Tyler, we lost the tire with the 19th. So, if all that's got to do is happen to us with the 11 and we're real troubles.

Bruce Martin:

And also, there's the variable in there that Denny's also a team owner and his driver had to really make up a lot of ground to be able to get back in after his early race incident down there in turn seven.

Joe Gibbs:

Absolutely. Tyler did a great job and he fought and fought and fought and fought, so did Denny, really. It's just fighting your guts out to get the round of eight. Thank goodness we're in that now. It's pretty much here, you can kind of go after it. You're going to have to have something really good happen now.

Bruce Martin:

And how did the tracks line up for Joe Gibbs racing the final four tracks on the schedule?

Joe Gibbs:

I like that. I like what we got there. I think this round was kind of chaotic in a way and so I like the last three that we have here and then we all know about Phoenix, so-

Bruce Martin:

Well, coach Gibbs, good luck in the rest of the NASCAR playoffs.

Joe Gibbs:

Thank you.

[Music Playing]

Bruce Martin:

And that puts a checkered flag on this edition of Pit Pass Indy. We want to thank our guests, IndyCar Series team owner, Bobby Rahal of Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing, Team Penske President Tim Cindric, 2024 NASCAR Cup Series, regular season champion, Tyler Reddick, NASCAR Cup Series star, Denny Hamlin and NASCAR Cup Series championship team owner Joe Gibbs for joining us on today's podcast.

Along with loyal listeners like you, our guests help make Pit Pass Indy your path to victory lane in IndyCar. Four more INDYCAR coverage, follow me at X, previously known as Twitter at @BruceMartin_500.

This has been a production of Evergreen Podcasts. A special thanks to our production team, executive producers are Brigid Coyne and Gerardo Orlando. Recordings and edits were done by me, Bruce Martin and final mixing was done by Dave Douglas. Learn more at evergreenpodcasts.com. Until next time, be sure to keep it out of the wall.