Romain Grosjean talks about his pilot's license and Morgan Hertzan, President, Global TV for VICE Media discuss “100 Days to Indy.”

Speakers: Bruce Martin, Romain Grosjean, & Morgan Hertzan

[Music Playing]

Bruce Martin:

IndyCar fans, it's time to start your engines. Welcome to Pit Pass Indy, a production of Evergreen Podcasts. I'm your host, Bruce Martin, a journalist who regularly covers the NTT IndyCar Series.

Our goal at Pit Pass Indy is to give racing fans an insider's view of the exciting world of the NTT IndyCar Series in a fast-paced podcast featuring interviews with the biggest names in the sport.

I bring nearly 40 years of experience covering IndyCar and NASCAR, working for such media brands as nbcsports.com, si.com, ESPN Sports Ticker, Sports Illustrated, Autoweek and Speed Sport.

So, let's drop the green flag on this episode of Pit Pass Indy.

Welcome to this week's edition of Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental.

We are proud and honored to bring Penske Truck Rental to the show as the presenting sponsor of Pit Pass Indy. We will continue to cover the entire NTT IndyCar Series community, and our new partners at Penske Truck Rental will help us tell those stories.

One of those is Romain Grosjean of Andretti Autosport. The former Formula One driver has already been a key figure at the start of the 2023 NTT IndyCar Series season after he won the poll for the March 5th Firestone Grand Prix of St. Petersburg.

He led 31 laps of the race and was battling for the victory before he was involved in a crash with our guest from last week's episode, Scott McLaughlin.

Grosjean is known for his aggressive racing style, but also, for his ability to connect with race fans globally. He has also, learned how to fly during the off season, as you'll discover in my exclusive interview with Grosjean for Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental.

Joining us now, on Pit Pass Indy is Romain Grosjean, who's back for his second season with Andretti Autosport and the beginning of his third season in IndyCar.

Romain, I'm sure the expectation level has gone up with what you hope to achieve in 2023. What are your goals this year?

Romain Grosjean:

Well, the goal is always the same when you start competition, is to do the best you can and try to bring the trophy home. So, I think we're just going to be working hard, taking race after race and see what comes at the end. But I feel like we've made a lot of progress from last year and I'm excited to jump back in the car.

Bruce Martin:

When you joined Dale Coyne Racing for your first season in IndyCar, a lot of people remembered you from Formula One. They remembered how great of aggressive driver you were in F1. Do you feel more like an IndyCar driver now?

Romain Grosjean:

Yeah, I think I feel good in what I do. I got to discover a little bit more the ovals last year, the superspeedway, short ovals which was brand new for me, so that went pretty well. I was surprised that I was doing so good on those.

I mean, IndyCar as a championship that works well for me, works well with my driving style. We can make the car to my liking. So, that's all the exciting part of it.

Bruce Martin:

When you drove for Dale Coyne, he was a team owner that's able to get the most out of what he's got. Doesn't have the most resources. It's a group of just basically true racers that go from race to race. A lot of times he pulls a rabbit out of the hat on pit strategy and all that.

You go over an Andretti Autosport, he's got a deep engineering staff, he's got a lot of resources. How big of a benefit is that, now that you're at Andretti Autosport to have those resources?

Romain Grosjean:

For sure we have the chance with Andretti Autosport to be with a team that's got a lot of resource, a lot of energy, so a lot of good people working. So, that helps for sure a lot. Saying that, we need to always to use the resource in the right way. And I think that's what we're doing better this year.

So, I'm excited to get all of that. I think last year we all sat down and looked at what we could do better after a year that wasn't the one that we wanted. And as I said, I'm very, very much looking forward to 2023.

Bruce Martin:

Your first season in IndyCar, you drove one oval race that was a worldwide technology raceway and gateway, and then you signed up for the full season when you went to Andretti Autosport. How do you like the ovals now?

Romain Grosjean:

I do like them. I never thought I was going to say that, but I do like the ovals. It is a challenge that's very different from what I've done before. But last year, I did pretty well and I was happy with that. There's still a lot that I need to learn, but definitively, feeling better and better on ovals.

Bruce Martin:

Of course, the biggest oval of all is the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in the Indianapolis 500. Last year, was your first Indy 500, and did it live up to your expectations or did it exceed them?

Romain Grosjean:

I think with Indy, you have got to leave it to discover what it is. So, I didn't have expectation, I was just ready to take on what was coming. And it was big.

So, the race wasn't even finished and I was already looking forward to the year after. So, I'm excited to go back there. I'm excited to see that race there again. And hopefully, we do better.

Bruce Martin:

You've raced in the biggest races in the world in Formula One. What's it like to be on the starting grid of the Indianapolis 500?

Romain Grosjean:

It's a big race. It's different from some of the others because it's like a two weeks leading up to the 500. So, it's like a tradition. And because of the layout, because of the stadium, because of the grandstands, you actually get to see a lot of people in a very small … it's a big place, but for theamount of people, it's a high sight.

So, it is different from what I had before. I don't really like to compare things, but I can tell you that I enjoyed it a lot.

Bruce Martin:

Also, with a lot of the traditions that go on at Indy, like you said, you're there for a couple of weeks and it also, gives you a chance to really settle in. It was a different experience for you because your first year in IndyCar you were living in a motor home in the infield of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and the driver owner motor home lot. So, did it almost feel like home to you?

Romain Grosjean:

Yeah, Indy at least the Speedway feels like home for sure. I was very lucky that I was accepted with my RV in ‘21 and spending a lot of time, ‘22 as well. And my family loves going there, I love being there. I probably knows all the shortcut and the back alley more than any other drivers, so it's pretty fun.

Bruce Martin:

One course that you adapted to rather quickly was the Indianapolis Motor Speedway road course. What is it about that road course that seemed to really suit your style so well?

Romain Grosjean:

I don't know. I think definitely in ‘21, it was a good combination between the car, the driver and the team. And it worked well. I think it is probably the most European of all the circus that we go to, so maybe that helped. But I just think that we had a good combo that week.

Bruce Martin:

Now, during the off season, I believe you've become a pilot and you're flying a lot. If you could tell our listeners how you became a pilot and what type of aircraft you fly.

Romain Grosjean:

Yeah. So, I wanted to do that for a long time. In Europe, it was a bit complicated and here in the State, it was easier to do it. So, I started doing my pilot license when the season was over last year after Laguna Seca. And since then I did my multi engine and my instrument flat rating as well as my private pilot license.

So, now, I fly a multi engine aircraft. It's just fun. It's just a really good way of going one place to another and I love it. So, if you haven't seen it, go on my YouTube and check it out.

Bruce Martin:

Because you drive high speed race cars, you have a certain amount of bravery that's involved in that, but were you a little nervous when you had to do your solo for a pilot's license?

Romain Grosjean:

Yeah, the first solo is a weird one. It's only for takeoff and landing and traffic patterns. So, it's not across country. But we practiced three with the teacher and then you drop him off and then off you go.

So, taking off was okay, turning crosswind and then down was okay, and I was like, okay, “Now, I'm going to turn base and now, I've got to land that thing on my own.” So, I was thinking I've done a lot of crazy stuff in my life, but that one is up there.

Bruce Martin:

But how much will it make your travel during the race season more convenient?

Romain Grosjean:

I just think it's just going to be very easy for me to go to one place or another. It's not a super fast airplane, but it's fast enough that I can go through the states and it is just part of the journey, part of enjoying life. I think that's what matters the most is just take your time, enjoy life, look at the scenery and have fun.

Bruce Martin:

And you get to go home on race night.

Romain Grosjean:

And I get to go home whenever I want. But remember, I am save checklist. Illness, medication, stress, alcohol, fatigue and emotions. So, that's one of the key checklists before you fly. So, you make sure you're well rested before you fly.

Bruce Martin:

And as far though as living in the United States, I believe you live in Miami now, and you revealed earlier today that your family wanted to go to lunch. So, you got on the plane and flew the Key West for lunch. A lot of us get excited when we drive to the south side of town for lunch, but you get to fly to Key West.

Just to be able to have that type of freedom, how liberated of a feeling is that?

Romain Grosjean:

It's really cool. I'm very lucky that I got the chance to do it. But also, I did it. I was the one starting the course and learning and spending the hours. And so, I think in life, if you want to do something, try to do it because it's worth it.

Bruce Martin:

Now, your team owner, Michael Andretti, wants to get in Formula One. He's already signed up Cadillac as a partner for Andretti Global. He's got the approval of the FIA president, but there seems to be a lot of Formula One team principles that for whatever reason, don't seem to be real enthused about it.

Obviously, you've been part of the Formula One paddock for over a decade. That probably does not surprise you at all, that there's Formula One principles that for whatever reason are throwing upobstacles.

Romain Grosjean:

Yeah, no, sadly I'm not surprised about the obstacles, but I must say that I'm amazed by Michael's effort and all the Andretti team at getting in, securing the funding, securing the deal with Cadillac. I really think that could be a game changer.

And I hope for the team that they get some great news very soon because they deserve a shots. They've been pushing hard, they've been doing everything they could. So, I mean, that's very inspiring.

Bruce Martin:

At 60 years old, Michael Andretti just seems to be hitting his stride when it comes to the business of running a race team. And how inspiring is that to see his great ambitions?

Romain Grosjean:

I mean, it's in the gene of the family. If you see Mario driving the two seaters and Formula One cars at COTA during the formula one weekend. Michael wanted to do Formula One, as you said, 60. But 60was still young. So, I mean, he's got the energy, he's got a wish he wanted to do it. He's got the great partners and I hope they can do it.

Bruce Martin:

There will be three Formula One events in the United States in 2023, including the big one that's going to be in Las Vegas. What were your thoughts when you saw the ticket prices and the packages that are coming out for that race? There's like a $5 million package for people to go to that event.

Romain Grosjean:

You know what, I see as a positive. There's appetite for it, there's a market for it, so why not? I mean, if people are willing to go there to that price, it's the price. Of course, for a lot of us, it's too high and we probably won't have the chance to go there.

But also, it's the first year. So, maybe year two, year three will be a little bit more affordable for people. But there's definitely a huge appetite in the US for Motorsport.

Bruce Martin:

But you're an IndyCar driver now, there's a lot of great things going on in IndyCar. They're going tohave a docuseries 100 Days to Indy. It's going to be a little bit like Drive to Survive, but it may increase the awareness level of IndyCar. So, how excited are you about what this sport has to offer?

Romain Grosjean:

I think IndyCar is taking a big step in the right direction with all the entertainment and marketing and communication. So, I'm excited to see what that does and I hope for everyone, it's going to be a very successful year.

Bruce Martin:

Romain Grosjean, good luck in 2023, and thank you for joining us today, on Pit Pass Indy.

Romain Grosjean:

Thank you.

Bruce Martin:

We'll be right back to Pit Pass Indy after this short break.

Scott McLaughlin:

Hi, I'm Scott McLaughlin, driver of the number 3 team Penske Chevy, and you'll listen to Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental.

Bruce Martin:

One of the most exciting projects involving the NTT IndyCar Series is the docuseries, 100 Days to Indy, which will air on The CW beginning on April 27th. The six-part documentary series will follow the drivers and team members behind the scenes giving viewers a unique look at the exciting world of the NTT IndyCar Series.

Vice Media is producing 100 Days to Indy, and our featured guest is Morgan Hertzan, president Global TV Vice Media. He is a driving force behind this exciting project and joins me for this exclusive interview for Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental.

Joining us now, on Pit Pass Indy is Morgan Hertzan, president Global TV for Vice, who is the driving force behind 100 Days to Indy. The docuseries that will air on The CW. Very exciting project.

It's a docuseries IndyCar wanted to be part of for a very long time. And now, we're finally here. You have production staff on the grounds following these drivers here at the Thermal Club as it's IndyCar's annual open test. Just is how exciting is the prospects of this project that you've come up with for Vice?

Morgan Hertzan:

Well, thanks for having me, Bruce. We're super excited. I mean, you hear about places like Thermal Club and you can imagine them, but until you're here, you can't actually imagine how cool this actually is.

This has to be one of the most unique private clubs and kind of unique sports worlds one can ever imagine. So, we're really excited to be here.

Bruce Martin:

But in addition, it also, serves as a spectacular backdrop for some of the scenes that will be in 100 Days to Indy. And how important is that from a visual aspect?

Morgan Hertzan:

Yes, that's a great question. Television is a visual medium and we're looking out this window right now, and we see amazing Indy cars, beautiful race cars, spectacular houses, the desert and snowcapped mountains.

So, if that doesn't make your listeners want to become viewers, I don't know what will. Followed by interesting owners, good looking race car drivers, their family, their girlfriends, on and on and on. Yeah, this is just visual eye candy.

Bruce Martin:

And in addition, IndyCar may have some of the best stories that have yet to be told, which is exactly what Vice intends to do with 100 Days to Indy. And how important is it to tell those stories?

Morgan Hertzan:

Yeah, well, I think look, storytelling is at the core of all good television content and storytelling is really at the core of what we do as a company at Vice. We're a storytelling company.

I think that what's really interesting about a 100 Days to Indy, and I think what's going to make people want to watch it and make it a unique show, is being led into this world.

Is that when you watch a race on TV or read coverage of a race, there's kind of one part of it and it almost looks like a unbelievable Tetris game of people moving down the track and fast and cool, but not as multi-dimensional as this.

And I think that one of the things that we found about this story that's interesting to us is the kind of aspiration of the drivers and the teams and how much work they put into it.

One of the things that's really surprised me is the science that goes into this sport, the work that goes into this sport, the workouts that go into this sport. Is that these guys are incredible athletes and all of that, I think together builds into a great story.

Bruce Martin:

Vice also, captures the key demographic that IndyCar is trying to attract, a younger audience. The CW is also a network that attracts younger viewers. How important and how vital is that for this project?

Morgan Hertzan:

Well, I mean, how vital is to this project? You should let Mark Miles talk about, I don't want to talk about the priorities of IndyCar, but I know that certainly getting younger fans is important for every single sport.

I can talk about why we are a youth media company. Vice is very focused on serving young people on whatever platform is young for that platform. So, obviously, we're huge on TikTok, we're huge on Twitter, we're huge on social. But on TV, we're one of the youngest networks on TV. And CW also,has a really young broadcast audience.

So, I think that I'm going to kind of flip your question around a little bit and not talk about why it's important for the project, but what we see is attractive to a youth audience in this show, if that's okay.

I mentioned the world and the world of IndyCar I think is appealing to young people because of what I said, is that there's young participants, young families, obviously, speed. But also, all of the kind of trials and tribulations, the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat. And that's an internal storyline that young people always love.

Bruce Martin:

You've won many awards at Vice with some of your docuseries and if you could tell our listeners what a few of them are so that they have an understanding of just what a major player Vice Media is.

Morgan Hertzan:

Oh, that's nice of you. So, Vice is the most award-winning news and documentary group and team in the business consistently year after year, the most Emmy award-winning news organization in the country every year.

Gosh, last year, we won 47 Emmys. I don't know if I'm going to pick a specific one to speak about. But yes, we're very, very award-winning. That's a dangerous game is to start saying, “Oh, I love this versus that,” when you have a lot of television production that you're overseeing. But yes, we are very, very award-winning.

I can talk about how we do that and why we do that, rather than pick out specific projects. I think that we meet people and meet characters where they are. As I think sometimes news media and documentarians and docuseries come in with a kind of eye of God view.

And we try to take a very immersive view of our topics. Is that we try to get in to people where they live with their families, understand their real-life situation, not kind of helicopter in and helicopter out. And I think that's a very unique perspective for us.

Bruce Martin:

When you do a docuseries where you follow around particular individuals, especially when you may be at their homes, what do you tell them in terms of, “Make believe we're not here, go about your business as if we're not here,” when they realize there's a sound crew and a camera crew right there in their house?

Morgan Hertzan:

That's another great question. Well, you don't start there. That's the key, is that what you don't do is show up with a big camera crew and say, “Hey, it's Morgan Hertzan from Vice. I've never met you before, but you're just going to pretend that I'm not here.”

Good docuseries and good unscripted television is about building trust and it's about getting to know people and them getting to know you. And our partners at IndyCar have actually been fantastic by having us meet the drivers and get to know the drivers and putting us in front of them before even started shooting so that they knew us.

So, by the time we are working with somebody and in their house, as you asked, the statement isn't, “Pretend I'm not here,” it's, “Hey, I'm really excited to see my friend Pat Dimon, who's the director of the show because I've talked to him three times and he hung out with me and I have a good relationship with him.”

And that makes people at ease. And I think that's really the secret to good documentary filmmaking.

Bruce Martin:

The fact that Vice Media has won so many Emmys, so many awards, it just underlines how important this project is, especially with IndyCar. How often have you been able to corroborate with The CW?

Morgan Hertzan:

This is our first project together and we're thrilled for that. So, Sean Compton and Brad Schwartz who run The CW reached out to us and said, “We want to tell this story. You guys are the perfect ones to do it.” We reached out to IndyCar.

But this is the first project that Vice and CW have done together, hopefully the first of many. But we're really excited to be working with them.

I think it's a very unique and kind of perfect combination because we have a big international reach outside the US. We have a big social and digital reach in the US. They have a huge broadcast platform and obviously, the biggest TV station group in the country through Nexstar.

So, we thought that the combination was really special and we were happy that Indy did as well.

Bruce Martin:

Obviously, Formula One has benefited from the Drive to Survive docuseries. Do you see the possibilities are the same for this docuseries?

Morgan Hertzan:

This is going to be so much better. I mean, I think that Drive to Survive is a great show, but it's a year after the season.

I think the thing that's really special about this and the power of broadcast television and the speed of Vice, and the amazing work that Bryan Terry and Pat Dimon and Adam Marinelli are doing, that's the production team, is this is going to air in real time.

I mean, we are shooting stuff today, that's going to be on TV six weeks from now, or something, eight weeks from now. That's incredible. And as we get closer to a 100 Days to Indy, you're going to see stuff that happened a week, two weeks before on TV.

So, to fans, they'll be incredibly satiated because they're inside something they love. But more importantly, that drama will extend to people that have never watched IndyCar before, don't even know about the sport. And I think that to us is really special.

Bruce Martin:

Is it fair to say that IndyCar travels at the speed of Vice?

Morgan Hertzan:

I think you said that, not me, but I do like that.

Bruce Martin:

Also, Brad Schwartz said this could be their entree into creating sports programming on The CW, which in a lot of ways, as the fifth network in the United States, this could be a fairly historic program.

Morgan Hertzan:

Absolutely, 100%. And Brad and I have talked about that a lot. We both see a 100 Days to dot, dot, dot, as a really good franchise and format as we call it in TV. And we want to do a 100 Days to a lot of sports, and we want to every year do a 100 Days to Indy.

But yeah, I think that it's a really smart way to get into the sports television market. But from a kind of very personal point of view, is that the idea behind a show like this is that it's not just appealing to the race fans, it's appealing to people that kind of find this world interesting.

I will say when I was here, it really struck me, CW has this iconic show called Gossip Girl, which I don't know if you've … everybody knows Gossip Girl. This is like Gossip Girl with race cars. I mean, this is unbelievable.

And that's not what I expected when we got into this. I was expecting something a little bit more of what I think you see on TV and what you expect. This is unbelievable. I mean, again, you can't see on the radio, but I wish you could see the spectacular vista of unbelievable homes, cars, people, private world that we're in.

Who doesn't want to watch Gossip Girl set in the world of race cars?

Bruce Martin:

When it comes to The CW, there's probably also, a Superman & Lois somewhere in the IndyCar Paddock.

Morgan Hertzan:

I bet that's true too. We can't forget our superheroes.

Bruce Martin:

But your crew's been working on this for a while. Although this is the first day Indy cars have been on track. You've been doing a lot of filming with a lot of people.

I believe that you may have had some film when Marcus Ericsson returned to Sweden. Also, you were trailing several drivers during IndyCar content days.

From what you've seen so far, there's got to be some great footage and some great anecdotes that you go, “This is going to be great. That's going to really be good.”

Morgan Hertzan:

Yes, the series is going to be amazing. We generally don't talk about what's going to be in the show until the show's on TV. But this is not our first day shooting, I'll say that. We've had cameras on for a while and we've gotten great stuff.

Bruce Martin:

Now, how important is a good old-fashioned rivalry between drivers that come right out and create drama and just don't like each other?

Morgan Hertzan:

Drama is important in television. Competition is important in television. It is the underpinning of all great TV. Whether it's a sports event, a game show, a scripted show, a sports docuseries. Drama is important, competition is important.

And my observation is that this is a very collegial bunch of people that like to socialize together and eat together and hang out together, but they just want to beat the hell out of each other. And they're all really competitive and I think that's great.

Bruce Martin:

I'm sure you probably can't wait till the first time that after a race, a move was made on a driver that another driver didn't like, that you'll have crews all over when the driver gets out of the car and is mad that what the other driver did to him.

Because that's authentic and that's organic and which is exactly what you're trying to do with this docuseries.

Morgan Hertzan:

Yeah. I mean, I think, like you said, drama, competition, victory, all of that stuff is incredibly important. And the more that we get into that, you really start to see that when the races happen.

I think the thing that's unique, the reason I kind of pause at that question is it's important for the showand I think what the viewers will see is this is about much more than what happens on the track.

This is about what happens at home, what happens in the pit, what happens in team meetings, what happens when they're setting strategy. This is about everything happening in these people's lives. The kind of pinnacle of that is what happens on race day on a track, but it's about so much more than that.

Bruce Martin:

What about all the other moving parts that are part of IndyCar, of the officials, the executives, theother people who are part of … there's more to IndyCar than just the cars and the drivers. There's team members, there's all kinds of different people that make this sport go.

Morgan Hertzan:

The logistics of this are staggering. And as I've gotten to know the team at IndyCar, Allison and Alex and all of our friends, the ability to just move this city, I don't think, again, what you see or what you have seen on TV is just this kind of visual Tetris of things moving back and forth.

What you don't really understand is that there is so much behind the scenes here that is moving around the country every week. And it's moving by truck, by plane, by … it's unbelievable.

And getting that level access. And that's one of the things also, I'll say about the show, particularly for 500 day, we're going to have never before seen access of how that all comes together. I mean, think about IMS is a city, its own city. A city of 300,000 people, that's a pretty big city in America that all of a sudden pops up for one day.

And think about all of the security and medical and music and on and on and on that's going into that. And that's fascinating and that's great for our show.

Bruce Martin:

I've been on the grounds of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway as early as 3:00 AM on race day. And it's amazing how many people are already working the catering staffs and the delivery trucks and the ice deliveries and everything that has to go in.

And you see that happening and it's 3:00 in the morning and they don't even open the gates for another three hours. I'm sure you'll be able to capture a lot of that on the docuseries.

But as far though as the crescendo will be the Indianapolis 500, when you think of that being the crescendo of the show, it's got to get your hair standing up a little bit with excitement as to what that's going to be like and just visually what you can do from a production standpoint with that.

Morgan Hertzan:

My first exposure to IMS was at the winter driver meeting in December. I'd never been there before. And you go all the way up to that top of that tower and you look around and to your point, your imagination takes hold of like all of these scenes and places.

And I had the opportunity to get driven around the track by Will Power. It's an experience I'll never forget. And you just feel like if you can capture that small level of drama in this show, will be great.

Bruce Martin:

Well, just all the possibilities, being able to put together a 100 Days to Indy has to really be — in many ways, is this a career highlight for you because of all the different possibilities that you can tie in together with something new?

Morgan Hertzan:

This is certainly, a new career chapter for me in terms of creative output. I've worked on unscripted shows, scripted shows. I had the privilege of working on the Oscars for many years. But this is very, very, very unique.

I mean, I'll go back to what I said. This is a world that people at home cannot believe until they actually see it. And so, for that reason, I'm super excited about the show.

Bruce Martin:

Morgan Hertzan, president, Vice Media Global, good luck on 100 Days to Indy. And thank you for joining us today, on Pit Pass Indy.

Morgan Hertzan:

Thank you, Bruce. I hope you'll be watching.

Bruce Martin:

I will definitely be watching.

[Music Playing]

And that puts a checkered flag on this edition of Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental. We want to thank our guest, Andretti Autosport driver, Romain Grosjean and Morgan Hertzan, president Global TV Vice Media for joining us on today's podcast.

Along with loyal listeners like you, our guests help make Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental, your path to victory lane for all things IndyCar. And because of our guest and listeners, Pit Pass Indy, presented by Penske Truck Rental is proud to be the winner of The Best Podcast by the National Motorsports Press Association.

For more IndyCar coverage, follow me at Twitter @BruceMartin (one word, uppercase B, uppercase M) _500.

This has been a production of Evergreen Podcasts. A special thanks to our production team. Executive producers are Brigid Coyne and Gerardo Orlando. Recordings and edits were done by me, Bruce Martin, and final mixing was done by Dave Douglas. Learn more at evergreenpodcasts.com.

Until next time, be sure to keep it out of the wall.